• I mean, I’ve read them, but clearly don’t fully understand the implications.

    Anyone have opinions on why doing Vichy is a stronger move than not?

  • I haven’t played with those rules, but I notice no one is providing for you, so I can try to make a contribution.

    I have read the rules and to my eye it seems obviously the case that instead of having a few territories and units here and there that are French, they become pro-Axis. Especially the two ships in sz 93 makes life a lot easier for Italy in their first round. And those pesky infantries in Africa and Syria staying put and becoming easily converted to Axis is another advantage. It also makes an African campaign a little more interesting for the Germans, getting to bolster their transported force with infantry here and there.

    A negative is of course that S France can’t be converted to Axis without the Vichy rule being reverted, losing that income of 3 IPC.

    For the Allies, it gives them opportunity to actually get income from French territories that now have become pro-Axis.

  • Where is the Vichy rule at please ?

  • @trulpen

    OK, so I think the clearest use of Vichy is… flip French North Africa to Axis, eliminate 2 French ships so Italy doesn’t have to sink them, then take N. Africa one by one, so you can send 1 dude there and end up with 4 Axis soldiers in Morocco, then retake S. France anyway.

    So my only hesitation is… I really like Germany having S. France on turn 1. It allows a counter to UK sz 92 stack and gives me a factory on the med as an option.

  • @weddingsinger

    Seems just about right. On the other hand it might be a bit dubious to invest two or three rounds in getting those pro-Axis-territories converted. It takes time and effort, while Italy likely wants to rather go for Egypt.

    There are certainly trade-offs in the deal, but perhaps waiting with S France until G2 is good? And take as many of those areas as possible in I1, like Tunisia and maybe Syria? When converting S France after Vichy has been introduced, all those troops will just disband, including the fleet in sz 93 and land units in S France (as I understand the rules). That’s probably what I would do with those rules in effect.

    Vichy pretty much opens up the opening game for Italy, making them able to put efforts usually reserved for S France and sz 93 to other places.

  • Why not have it where when the French thing is good to go roll for French land and ships instead of making them pro axis Vichy.
    More fun and changes at start of game ain’t always the same.
    Roll d6
    1 - German
    2-3 - Scuttled
    4 - Free French
    5. - Vichy
    6. - UK

  • I’m reviewing all Vichy rules available out there, as I plan to make a unique mod, because I like historical realism and simplicity, with minimized luck of dice, and some “asymmetric balance”.

    Some major points I’ve posted elsewhere in the forum:

    1. The main issue for this expansion is how to develop French neutrality, while at the same time providing a bonus to Germany. Apparently ignored by most players, in real life (IRL), Germany economically exploited Vichy, which had to richly sustain 300,000 German troops stationed in Northern France. Therefore, in the game, it only makes total sense that Germany gets the 3 IPCs from Vichy Southern France.

    2. Another related major issue is what to do with French colonies in terms of neutrality/occupation and IPC flows. I agree that the Vichy setup should reflect what happened IRL: North Africa, Syria, and Indochina go to Vichy, while other French colonies stay Free. However, it messes up Italy’s incursions into North Africa (as IRL, Hitler denied French colonies to Italy). I’m not sure yet as to the best approach to subjecting these colonies to invasion, occupation, and who gains IPCs (other than agreeing that Japan has easy access “rights” over Vichy Indochina), and also remote units…

    3. Germany never fought Vichy. IRL, with Operation Torch, Germany simply occupied Vichy in 1942, with no resistance whatsoever. Vichy units were disbanded. That can be also the case in the game. Just remove Vichy units.

    4. The uncertainty surrounding local pre-battles is quite interesting (will Vichy troops welcome or resist Allies in North Africa?..). However, I’d try to minimize dice randomness that is often used to decide some outcome. IRL, Vichy troops (just like Italians) surrendered as soon as seeing enemy superiority: thus, in the game, if Allies send more land + air units than defending Vichy units, then there should be no battle but quick surrender. Or, make it highly unlikely that a battle would ensue (for example, need to roll a 1).

    I’m now working on my own house rules, for an expansion (HBG lingo) that is quite realistic, fun yet simple. If anyone is interested, let me know and I’ll be happy to share my rules when ready…


    Chicago, December 2020

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