Moral question…


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Maybe I’m getting dimensia… but for whatever reason this morning, I’ve totally forgotten who this person was LOL! (name).

    I mean, I do let people go every other month or two, but you would think it would stick with me!

    Time to phone head office and find out… LOL… good thing I posted it on the forum so I have the date!



  • @Gargantua:

    • A week of -no change- and I said it out-loud to him in front of a group of people…
    • Another week of -no change- and I simply dropped the bomb, you F’n STINK, and it still didn’t seem to register…

    This is unconscionable behavior for anyone on a managerial or supervisory role.  Public humiliation of an employee (regardless of the causal factors) is deplorable behavior.  While it may have made you popular with the other employees in the short term and may have solved the immediate problem, you have probably done more long term damage to your credibility as a leader than anything else.  And if you don’t get sued for discriminatory practices you should count yourself very lucky.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    @Hepps01:

    @Gargantua:

    • A week of -no change- and I said it out-loud to him in front of a group of people…
    • Another week of -no change- and I simply dropped the bomb, you F’n STINK, and it still didn’t seem to register…

    This is unconscionable behavior for anyone on a managerial or supervisory role.�  Public humiliation of an employee (regardless of the causal factors) is deplorable behavior.�  While it may have made you popular with the other employees in the short term and may have solved the immediate problem, you have probably done more long term damage to your credibility as a leader than anything else.�  And if you don’t get sued for discriminatory practices you should count yourself very lucky.�  � Â

    If you stunk, I’d tell everybody too.

    This personal was putting ALL of us at risk with poor hygiene.

    It’s not discriminatory, when it’s an easily correctable behavioural issue, and it’s an important health matter.

    I also would complain about people who don’t wash their hands after using the washroom.  Especially if they were working in a KITCHEN.


  • '12

    Garg, you have to admit construction types are a bit more accustomed to shall we say….blunt talk.  I just came from a site with 4 guys working on a job for me, those MEN would not have a problem with being told they stunk if they stunk.  Or were drunk when they were drunk or being a dick when they were being a dick, they call me out when it needs to be done.  Maybe construction types are different elsewhere.

    Now if the guy was in a ballet troupe or a lawyer…


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Well it’s obvious Heppsititus stinks up a government building.

    However, I hope he realizes that the next step in this process, is that if the person doesn’t groom themselves that they’ll “get groomed”. In short order.

    Perhaps I should argue that I saved this person and my company -that- fate.

    There is no excuse for being regularily disgusting, and a “danger” to yourself and others.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Garg, you have to admit construction types are a bit more accustomed to shall we say….blunt talk.  I just came from a site with 4 guys working on a job for me, those MEN would not have a problem with being told they stunk if they stunk.  Or were drunk when they were drunk or being a dick when they were being a dick, they call me out when it needs to be done.  Maybe construction types are different elsewhere.

    Now if the guy was in a ballet troupe or a lawyer…

    I will agree that construction types are a bit of a holdout 😉  Thank god…



  • There is a vast difference between having justifiable grounds for dismissal and public belittlement of an employee.

    I’m not saying that you didn’t in all probability have adequate grounds to terminate the employee.  But on the flip side of the coin you didn’t mention in your initial post whether or not you discussed with the individual whether he had any medical or religious conditions/restrictions that may have been contributing to is apparent lack of hygiene.  God forbid he does,  because if he does and he is smarter than he is clean… you’ll rue the day you ever opened your mouth in front of your staff.

    What I’m saying is that there is absolutely no justification under any circumstances to publicly belittle any employee in the workplace.   Firstly it can have legal implications.  Harassment can be used to define a broad range of behaviors in the workplace.  And generally speaking the courts tend to favour plaintiffs in situations where managerial personnel are seen to exhibit discriminatory or abussive behavior.  But more importantly is that as an employee I would be asking myself when will it be my turn for public humiliation.   Furthermore what is stopping me as an employee from telling Jimmy that his Curry sticks up the lunch room, or that I hate Franks pink shirts, or to tell you you’re a shitty boss in front of everyone else for that matter.  Because a pattern of saying whatever you want in front of whoever is around will foster that attitude in all your employees.

    You have every right in your personal life to tell it like it is.  I’m sure to you, your farts smell like roses and your breath is like rainbows to everyone around you.  And if you want to walk around pointing out others short comings then that’s your prerogative.  However the workplace is no place for it.  If you need to address a situation in the workplace you do it in private.

    All that being said I will acknowledge that tradesmen and construction sites can be less than professional workplaces.



  • @Gargantua:

    Well it’s obvious Heppsititus stinks up a government building.

    lol.  I run my own designing & contracting business.  So I am familiar with the blunt nature of job sites.

    However, I hope he realizes that the next step in this process, is that if the person doesn’t groom themselves that they’ll “get groomed”. In short order.

    Perhaps I should argue that I saved this person and my company -that- fate.

    There is no excuse for being regularily disgusting, and a “danger” to yourself and others.

    lol.  I run my own designing & contracting business.  I have also worked for many construction companies over the years.  So I am familiar with the blunt nature of job sites.

    Unfortunately the courts don’t have a “Oh you work in the trades” clause in the law.

    I’ve seen more then a few people loose their careers after being diagnosed with severe cases of “Foot in the mouth” disease.  I have also seen many cases of companies paying dearly for managers who have suffered from said disease.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I was in some place called Pollo Loco yesterday and there was a short line.

    This guy walks in and in seconds everybody who was eating…stopped eating and started to look around.

    It smelled like somebody lived in a sewer! It was a horrific smell and the funny thing is people who were waiting in line just left and walked out…in fact a number of people just got up and left.

    I figured this is a quick fix to not have to wait, but i too was overcome by this horrible smell and walked out and had lunch somewhere else.

    So to me when somebody smells like that, it’s kinda like an assault.

    In terms of what to do in the job, always talk to employees in private and just send them home. But to their defense, construction jobsites are often replete with tasks that get people dirty and stinky and most likely this person has limited sets of clothing for work and he probably soiled what he had left. A thorough discussion of how he might effect his coworkers and what is expected of him should clear up the problem.

    Some allowances like an emergency set of fresh clothing could be made available for people like that to change in. Like the last guy said, construction sites are not professional workplaces and the “dress code” has far less expectations than normal workplaces.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    @Imperious:

    I was in some place called Pollo Loco yesterday and there was a short line.

    This guy walks in and in seconds everybody who was eating…stopped eating and started to look around.

    It smelled like somebody lived in a sewer! It was a horrific smell and the funny thing is people who were waiting in line just left and walked out…in fact a number of people just got up and left.

    I figured this is a quick fix to not have to wait, but i too was overcome by this horrible smell and walked out and had lunch somewhere else.

    So to me when somebody smells like that, it’s kinda like an assault.

    In terms of what to do in the job, always talk to employees in private and just send them home. But to their defense, construction jobsites are often replete with tasks that get people dirty and stinky and most likely this person has limited sets of clothing for work and he probably soiled what he had left. A thorough discussion of how he might effect his coworkers and what is expected of him should clear up the problem.

    Some allowances like an emergency set of fresh clothing could be made available for people like that to change in. Like the last guy said, construction sites are not professional workplaces and the “dress code” has far less expectations than normal workplaces.

    An Excellent post.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Based on IL’s premise that the stink is an assault.

    If I berated an employee for starting a physical fight on a jobsite, in ear-shot of other peers, and released said employee for it.  I don’t think that’s unreasonable either?

    Jobsites are not traditionally private workplaces.

    The lesson I’ve learned from this moral question, was that some procedural changes in the future are wise (Paper follow-through on the person).  I will reconsider public disclosure of my sentiments with future individuals as well.


  • '12

    All that being said I will acknowledge that tradesmen and construction sites can be less than professional workplaces.

    Unlike say a software design house where the white collar geeks play networked video games and surf porn……



  • @Hepps01:

    @Gargantua:

    • A week of -no change- and I said it out-loud to him in front of a group of people…
    • Another week of -no change- and I simply dropped the bomb, you F’n STINK, and it still didn’t seem to register…

    This is unconscionable behavior for anyone on a managerial or supervisory role.  Public humiliation of an employee (regardless of the causal factors) is deplorable behavior.  While it may have made you popular with the other employees in the short term and may have solved the immediate problem, you have probably done more long term damage to your credibility as a leader than anything else.  And if you don’t get sued for discriminatory practices you should count yourself very lucky.

    Garg can pay the other staffers at the time of the firing to arrive on the court date to witness how the workplace sanitation was reducing the productivity of that particular site until the offensive stench was removed.


  • '12

    ……or the other staffers will sign statements saying how stinky likes looking at kids for a little too long if stinky wants to make an issue of it


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    If I berated an employee for starting a physical fight on a jobsite, in ear-shot of other peers, and released said employee for it. � I don’t think that’s unreasonable either?

    Well no matter what– to afford respect from how people view you, these discussions must always be out earshot of anybody else. It’s really not anybody’s business how or why you fire an employee for any reason. The professional way is to inform them in private ( as much as possible). If you make it a public spectacle, you lose the respect of others who will view your leadership with fear and that’s not the way to lead a team.



  • That’s what you get for hiring a french guy.


  • '12

    @Zooey72:

    That’s what you get for hiring a french guy.

    Stupid comment.

    Yrs.,
    R.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Sacre Bleu!


  • '12

    I have lots of French guys who work for me.  I think this is what they would say in response to this:

    That’s what you get for hiring a french guy.

    tabarnak de calisse


  • 2018 '16 '13 '12

    @MrMalachiCrunch:

    tabarnak de calisse

    I believe that would be: “câlice.”


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