@Argothair:
I’m a rank (as in stinky) amateur at A&A 1940, but here’s my two cents for how America can respond to a J1 DoW:
- Establish a limited goal for yourself in Europe, and stick to it. Your ability to be effective in the Pacific depends on rapidly building up a US Pacific Fleet that can defeat the Imperial Japanese Navy; until you at least get to the naval break-even point, all the IPCs you drop in the Pacific are earning zilch for your team. That means you can afford to send 15 - 18 IPCs / turn across the Atlantic, tops. Any more than that and you’re not really playing a KJF strategy; you’re playing a muddled grabbag that happens to lean toward the Pacific. What can you do with 16 IPCs per turn? You could build a Mediterranean naval squadron to help the UK sink Italy’s surface boats, flipping a couple of national objectives your way. Or, instead, you could land troops in Morocco to march east across North Africa, helping to relieve Egypt. Or, instead, you could land troops in Norway to take away Germany’s bonus for Swedish ore. If you hold Norway, you can build a minor factory there and start marching troops over to Leningrad. Don’t try to accomplish more than one of these goals in the first five turns, and don’t try to invade the western European mainland – you just don’t have enough cash.
I mostly agree.
I’d say 18/turn to the Atlantic side is definitely too much against a decent Japanese player. That’s three less submarines or nearly two less planes you’re building per turn, which is probably going to delay your ability to run in and smash up japan by at least one entire round, which can be damning. If I’m going to contribute anything much to the Atlantic as US, I’m for dumping the initial 52 into the Atlantic and then going straight 100% Pacific from then on, or at most 8-12/turn (on average) in the Atlantic, if even that.
With that first 52, as you said, you can help permanently keep Gibraltar (if necessary), or as you said snake your way up to Norway and cause no small amount of issues, or if the Axis make a mistake, let you blow up a major factory on Northern Italy or Western Germany or other GOTCHAs that are possible on that side of the map. I agree that Normandy is a bad call unless the Axis have made some pretty severe mistakes or risky plays, but let’s assume for this thread that the Axis are playing theoretically perfectly.
I don’t think the northern Africa marching is really all that useful in most games unless it’s just to keep them off of Morocco for the 6 IPCs it’s worth (1+NO), and even then. Too slow, and either Italy has crashed Egypt and your forces won’t get there in time to help, or Italy is retreating their troops back up to the continent they came from with their one transport that is left and there’s nothing left for you to do since Egypt doesn’t need relief.
@Argothair:
- If the Japanese swing their boats way out of position to take the Philippines and the East Indies on J1, you can probably afford to stack your Navy in Hawaii on A1, and you may be able to move out to the Carolines as early as A2. If it helps you seize the harbor a turn earlier, consider sending ANZAC destroyers to act as blockers to help keep the Japanese navy out of position. It’s very much a race.
I either disagree completely or don’t fully understand you here.
I would call Japan putting its boats to take the Philippines the optimal position. Yes, you can get your meager starting U.S. navy to Hawaii, but there’s no way in hell Japan is going to let you take the Carolines A2 unless you do sacrifice the ANZAC cruiser/destroyer to do it. If you do sacrifice the ANZAC boats, japan kills them with planes and subs, and is still sitting the bulk of what they have on the Philippines J3 keeping you from doing much of anything useful at all A3. I would love for you to tell me how I my line of thinking is wrong, because as the US I feel most impotent A1-3.
@Argothair:
- If the Japanese are more careful with their fleet positioning, then you won’t be able to get to the Carolines until A3. In that case, spend ANZAC’s income on a couple of loaded transports so that ANZAC can take control of the Carolines in case the big navies wipe each other out.
I don’t see the “wiping each other out” thing working at all well for the US J3/4.
I see this situation in 50%-60%+ of games. J3 has JP sitting on the Philippines, and has gotten the money islands/Malaya and is going all ass wild as Japan tends to do. It’s A3, and you have a fleet on Caroline. America cannot hit the Philippines, because their strength is simply too anemic to reliably deal favorable damage. And even if they do hit it, it’s not super juicy since Japan likely has its transports sitting off of FIC (which has a naval base/mIC) with a Kwangsi air base and any J3 naval purchases from the FIC factory defending them. Attacking Japan on the Philippines destroys some of the imperial navy, yes, but it destroys all of what america has yet to build and put west, and the trade off I never find it worth it for the US, at all.
Japan is making well over 60 at the end of J3, and the US 72 (assuming Brazil). China is probably under control to some degree (or completely wrecked) and UK Pac is economically crippled. Japan still has its transport fleet alive, meaning they can make Britain pay dearly for attempting to be too plucky with its units. They can rebuild a large part of their fleet that is either directly in the action or only 1 turn away while america is spending 1 or 2 turns getting back into position.
Can Japan on J4 potentially attack the Carolines and win against what is there? Potentially, but I see that they very often do not take the risk and move themselves that far out. Time is not really against Japan in the pacific, it’s against the Allies. Japan is served just fine by continued posturing if it means keeping the US at bay for an extended period of time. All the while, its economy is swelling dramatically, easily outpacing the US by J5/6.
However, if the US fleet is too heavily based on submarines on the Carolines A3, then Japan should attack, and that’s likely the tipping point leading to heavy momentum to an eventual Japanese victory.
@Argothair:
- There’s really not much you can do with UK Pacific or China when Japan starts mowing them down on J1. The Burma Road is going to be closed early and stay that way, and UK Pacific is going to be very short on income. Just play conservatively – use single infantry blockers as appropriate to help slow down Japanese mech. inf. / tanks, and otherwise be constantly on the retreat. Don’t throw away your armies just to make a point, even if it wins you an important territory for one turn. It’s not glamorous or fun to lose every battle, but just by keeping significant infantry reserves in your rear, you (a) force Japan to commit large numbers of infantry and transports to keep resupplying the south Asian fronts, which takes away from Japan’s naval purchasing power, and (b) have the option of reinforcing Moscow or the Middle East during the middlegame with your surviving infantry.
I think I agree.
I usually see the Burma road reopened each turn until the 4th round, though. China can only annoy Japan and hope to slow them down. Britain is best served by keeping its options open and, indeed, eventually heading west if the situation gets too gross for them in the pacific.
@Argothair:
- Build lots of American subs. Because ANZAC can deliver loaded transports from close range, and because you have some airbases along the way to help with your fighter/bomber logistics chain, you really don’t need to protect an American carrier fleet against Japanese attacks. It’s cheaper to build a force that’s made up mostly of subs and bombers so that you can sink whatever Japan sends out to guard the islands, letting ANZAC pick off the actual Japanese ground forces. Do keep one loaded American transport someplace safe (Hawaii at first, then later the Solomon Islands) so that you can retake the Philippines or capture Java and build an American industrial complex there without having to wait for the transport to arrive from San Francisco.
I think I disagree.
If you have all subs and bombers with only a smattering of other units, Japan will just withdraw just barely out of your immediate reach, then wait for you to move closer, counterattack, and destroy all those subs defending on a 1 with absolutely amazing effectiveness, they wouldn’t even need much more than half of their navy/air to do such a thing.
You can use the airbases to scramble to buy you a little more defense, for sure, but that’s not going to save you after a certain, rather early, point.
As said above you cannot build mICs on islands. The only viable points for US factories on that side of the map are Kwangtung (assuming India has fallen), taking Japan’s FIC mIC from them (good luck), and Korea (right in the damn bees’ nest).
If I am misunderstanding you, or am blind to the mechanics of the strategy, please elaborate.
@Argothair:
- Ask the UK Europe player to make it a priority to help Moscow survive until turn 6-7, so the Siberian reinforcements can arrive. If the UK player has a choice between propping up India and propping up Moscow, you definitely want to go for Moscow – India is going to be small no matter what in this type of game, and the whole point of retreating 18 inf, 2 AA guns before they even clash with the Japanese is to get them safely to Moscow – don’t let the Axis pick off Moscow before they even get there.
Agreed.
The UK Pac air usually ends up in Moscow for at least a couple of turns along with lots of other british air in games I play in. Which, (as the assumption in this thread went) buys time for the 18 eastern ruskies to end up in Moscow. This forces Germany to start the long game, or perhaps even allows Britain/Russia to ensure they never reach the middle east.
