@ABWorsham4 probably still scared the starving civilians , carrying rifles and 2 bullets each, half to death at the time though .
Leaving the forum
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So in other words… the moderation at AA.org IS politically charged.
How fascinating.
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[quote]So in other words… the moderation at AA.org IS politically charged.
How fascinating.[/quote]
No buddy you got it wrong again.
We stop politically charged commentary of any type whether we agree or not it is not allowed as per the established rules.
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My thread about allied war crimes was closed. And it was specifically non political.
How does that fit into this equation?
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stay on topic.
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@Cmdr:
Last thought, if, IF, you attempt in any way to defend Mao Tze Tung, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, or any other individual, group or affilliation that is commonly seen in a negative light (and I am not talking republi-crat or demon-rat parties, or any other low level thing, I am talking about Skin Heads, Terrorists, Black Panthers, National Socialists {NAZIs} and the like) then you deserve to have your post either truncated or terminated.
There are two philosophies about how one can arrive at the truth:
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To allow a free and open debate. The thought here is that during the debate, the truth will gradually become clear.
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For some small group of power holders to decide on the truth, and to censor anyone who disagrees with them.
The above-quoted text represents a rejection of the first philosophy, and an acceptance of the second. It is exactly this kind of thinking which has prompted my exit from the forum. I feel, strongly, that people should be free to question mainstream views, to subject them to critical scrutiny, and to reject them whenever they don’t stand up to said scrutiny. For some small group of power holders to censor those who don’t agree with the mainstream view is unnecessary, and unhelpful to the pursuit of truth.
As a specific example, communist apologists claim that the Ukrainian famine was not deliberately engineered, and that the Soviet occupation of postwar Germany was nothing out of the ordinary. Claims such as these can (and should) be viewed as a defense of Stalin, and a misrepresentation of history. But I don’t want to see them censored. In the debate between pro- and anti-communists, facts about the Ukrainian famine and the Soviet occupation of Germany will emerge which might have remained hidden, had such a debate not occurred. Being challenged by those who disagree with you causes you to research more, and be more vigorous than you otherwise would have been. Conversely, the censorship of dissent leads to intellectual laziness and the acceptance of error as truth.
It is not a violation of the terms of service to express a non-mainstream view. Nor would it be even remotely appropriate to change that fact. I cannot even begin to express how completely unacceptable it is to censor ideas. The role of moderators should be to warn or (if needed) ban those who violate the terms of service’s prohibition against personal attacks. Moderators should not play a role in determining which thoughts and ideas are acceptable, and which should be policed.
Finally, I’d like to thank U-505 for his eloquent and well thought-out posts. I agree with every word he’s written, and I appreciate the time and effort he put into creating intellectually rigorous posts.
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It is not a violation of the terms of service to express a non-mainstream view. Nor would it be even remotely appropriate to change that fact. I cannot even begin to express how completely unacceptable it is to censor ideas. The role of moderators should be to warn or (if needed) ban those who violate the terms of service’s prohibition against personal attacks. Moderators should not play a role in determining which thoughts and ideas are acceptable, and which should be policed.
The rules say that off topic threads must be closed. Since nothing with respect to any post you made was ever edited or removed ( which might be censoring), they are in those closed threads.
Thus you didn’t get censored unless you have an edit or something ( i already looked, you don’t)
It’s not just about personal attacks, it’s about hijacking threads and leading them off topic. To me the only thing would be to provide warning before thread was closed.
The owner of the site made it clear that topics should relate to Axis and Allies, and Military History does this. Military History is about battles and they clearly relate to the game.
Political talk is also a no no. That is not from the Moderators but again from the site ownership/administration.
Why not make a thread about eugenics or whatever and see how it goes?
Rather than posting in threads about “Could France hold out after Paris falls” with info on slave labor train schedules for 1943, a thread specifically about your own topic can be created. At least it would not be off topic.
Lets try that. OK?
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Finally, I’d like to thank U-505 for his eloquent and well thought-out posts. I agree with every word he’s written, and I appreciate the time and effort he put into creating intellectually rigorous posts.
You’re welcome, but no thanks is necessary. Fair play is of the utmost importance to me. This site holds a special place in my heart and it seems Fate had decided it’s the perfect time for me to return from a lengthy absence and get involved in this discussion simply because I have a knack for rubbing people the wrong way. My work is never done. :-D
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IMNSHO,
- We went off topic in this thread PAGES ago.
- Moderators HAVE to stop anything political in nature due to the regulations on the site. Sorry, I know I was not asked for an opinion on this rule, but it is what it is.
- Moderators have a duty to use their best judgement to determine if a comment is incendiary in nature. Incendiary comments (or flames) destroy conversations.
- In my OPINION, the site is to help play the game of Axis and Allies (and variants.) Whether by discussing rules, being a place to play with others, finding opponents, or what have you. So technically, if you want my opinion on it, any conversation that isn’t either a game, or a discussion about a game or game rules, is off topic.
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@Cmdr:
IMNSHO,
- Moderators HAVE to stop anything political in nature due to the regulations on the site. Sorry, I know I was not asked for an opinion on this rule, but it is what it is.
- Moderators have a duty to use their best judgement to determine if a comment is incendiary in nature. Incendiary comments (or flames) destroy conversations.
It’s not hard to spot a comment that is off topic, inflammatory, or political in nature. Virtually everyone can figure that out and nobody is questioning moderator best judgement in that regard. It’s HOW moderators choose to deal with those comments that is the powder keg issue here. Many people seem to feel that moderator judgement, in that respect, is lacking, biased, or uneven in it’s distribution and there is definitely evidence to support their claim.
@Cmdr:
- In my OPINION, the site is to help play the game of Axis and Allies (and variants.) Whether by discussing rules, being a place to play with others, finding opponents, or what have you. So technically, if you want my opinion on it, any conversation that isn’t either a game, or a discussion about a game or game rules, is off topic.
Well, in that case, the entire General Discussion forum is off topic.
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U-505:
If you ask me, then yes, the GD forum is off-topic. That doesn’t mean it should be closed, rather, it’s a demonstration of how off topic might not be anti-the forum. Kind of like trash talking your opponent, in your own game, isn’t something that should be moderated either (unless your opponent complains - none of mine ever have, but then, it’s in the spirit of the game. Don’t try to tell me that General Patton would have kissed up and been all nicey-nice to Adolf Hitler.)
Just my feeling on it.
As for the “powder keg” issue - the problem there is that when we edit/remove a post for being so against the rules, we cannot also frame it up and post it for the world to see so they can also judge that it should be removed. Although, I have quite a few gems, I think if I pull some details out (so as to make them more generic) we could post them as examples.
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Virtually everyone can figure that out and nobody is questioning moderator best judgement in that regard.
But this is the main issue. They don’t they KNOW what they are doing or even worse THEY DO and CHOOSE to throw/create Molotov cocktail threads/posts just to **** with some people. When we according to you respond with action, we get called biased.
So i guess they complain like children and what they do is never once put into question. All we are doing is following the rules about what is basic moderation. Yes they get targeted because they cause the problems time and time again and don’t get punished.
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So when does this thread get closed?
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I like eggs, but I digress.
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@Cmdr:
IMNSHO,
- We went off topic in this thread PAGES ago.
- Moderators HAVE to stop anything political in nature due to the regulations on the site. Sorry, I know I was not asked for an opinion on this rule, but it is what it is.
- Moderators have a duty to use their best judgement to determine if a comment is incendiary in nature. Incendiary comments (or flames) destroy conversations.
- In my OPINION, the site is to help play the game of Axis and Allies (and variants.) Whether by discussing rules, being a place to play with others, finding opponents, or what have you. So technically, if you want my opinion on it, any conversation that isn’t either a game, or a discussion about a game or game rules, is off topic.
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“Political in nature” is a bit vague. This is a discussion forum about WWII history. There will be times when people have positive or negative things to say about FDR and Truman (Democrats), Eisenhower (a Republican) or other wartime leaders. As long as those comments pertain to WWII history, they should be allowed.
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A prohibition against comments which are “incendiary in nature” is also vague, and leaves moderators free to suppress points of view with they or others strongly disagree. Allowing flames is destructive to conversations. Allowing non-mainstream perspectives to be expressed is constructive; and causes conversations to be deeper and more meaningful than they otherwise would have been.
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Legally, Eisenhower has no political opinion when he was a general, which encompasses his entire tenure during the time frame in question (1938-1946). Even if he was allowed to have a political opinion, it would have no bearing on a tactical discussion - I cannot say there is an instance where Eisenhower’s political leanings impacted his ability to take orders from the CIC.
As for ambiguity, it is generally very obvious what is, and is not, against forum policy. If you call someone a “flaming son of a *****, Republican bottom-feeding scum bag” then we know, beyond any ambiguity, that is both a flaming and political post.
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@Cmdr:
Legally, Eisenhower has no political opinion when he was a general, which encompasses his entire tenure during the time frame in question (1938-1946). Even if he was allowed to have a political opinion, it would have no bearing on a tactical discussion - I cannot say there is an instance where Eisenhower’s political leanings impacted his ability to take orders from the CIC.
As for ambiguity, it is generally very obvious what is, and is not, against forum policy. If you call someone a “flaming son of a *****, Republican bottom-feeding scum bag” then we know, beyond any ambiguity, that is both a flaming and political post.
As a general, Eisenhower was involved in several controversies during and after the war. Discussion of these controversies is a relevant and acceptable subject for a WWII history forum.
I agree that in the example you gave, the quote represents a violation of the terms of service. But a phrase like “incendiary in nature” is ambiguous. On the one hand, it can and should be used as a prohibition against personal attacks. Ridding this forum of personal attacks would be a good thing. On the other hand, some may consider non-mainstream perspectives “incendiary.” The world needs less censorship of non-mainstream perspectives, not more.
Whenever ambiguous, value-laden words like “incendiary” are used in defining list moderation policy, moderators are put into the position of clarifying said ambiguity and making judgment calls. This means list moderators’ decisions will come as a surprise, at least when a moderator’s definition of “incendiary” happens to differ from a forum participant’s. Another consequence of ambiguous words like “incendiary” is that the forum will effectively have multiple list moderation policies, because no two moderators will have exactly the same definition of “incendiary.”
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Kurt,
You may want to read up on the UCMJ (Unified Code of Military Justice.) ALL soldiers, without regard to rank, may not espouse a, or any number of, political opinions. I knew a guy who got an Article 15 for wearing a unit pin (looks like a unit patch) at a politica rally. Lost $100 USD for it, could have, theoretically, had judicial punishment.
The UCMJ, I can assure you, predates World War II. Therefore, General Eisenhower was not permitted to espouse a political view. He had a tactical and strategic view of how bad the NAZIs were and a desire to crush them, but that was apolitical.
Since he was not the President of the United States during World War II (at any point) then his post-military service (as POTUS is a civilian) has no relevance to any discussion on this board.
I do, however, freely admit any act that a general personally committed during World War II, or just prior too World War II, may be a valid discussion for these forums. After all, if you want to mention General Patton personally purchasing fuel for his tanks in a war game just prior to the war? Sure. Want to talk about Rommel’s book, same story.
I just draw the line at saying “Patton was a Democrat” or “Adolf Hitler was a Republican” for one thing, I kind of doubt either was true - most certainly in the latter, since he was elected as a NAZI, but I digress.
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I thought Dwight and Truman got into it about “Reds” in the USA (Post war)? When was there ever a Nazi issue?
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