How much should be forgiven?

[Young Grasshopper]

I play in 3 different games per month with 3 different groups, and we all play the same way as I mentioned in my posts above, and no one has ever had a problem with it, and no has ever accused each other of cheating. I will ask my groups formally if it is an issue and if we should point out big mistakes. Is there any one out there who agrees with me on this issue?

[Shakespeare]

If you make a mistake, you make a mistake and you live with it.

I’ve made plenty of mistakes or oversights in Axis & Allies and I expect that the other players will pounce on them.

Occasionally as we play if I pick up on something, I’ll point it out.

But I also expect to pay the price if I make an error.

That’s what makes me a better player.

In these marathon games, if you falter becz of your tiredness then too bad.

That’s part of the game too. Endurance. Attentiveness over time.

But, I expect the same right back at me.

So long as you are consistent with this then fine!

But I am not going to point out “errors” “blunders”; that’s part of the game. For me too.

Forgetful stuff like not moving that tank from South Africa towards Egypt, no problem.

But not seeing that my 8 bombers from France can sink your US fleet off Spain, No Way!

I’ve done that and it cost me the game, I did not blame the Germans.

[Young Grasshopper]

Thank you Shakespeare, I was beginning to think that I was in the twilight zone. In a nut shell, I think that we both agree, that making a mistake and paying for it dearly makes you a more improved player than, being forgiven immediately and moving on. I remember when I made a huge mistake that cost my whole team the game, but I learned a great deal from it and won my next game convincingly playing the same power. I would never have wanted to be treated with baby gloves and allowed to reverse my blunder, because a win wouldn’t have felt like a win if we were given game saving advice from the enemy.

[Jennifer]

If your opponent’s mistake is going to alter the course of the game significantly, then I feel it is good sportsmanship to warn them.

For example:  Italy has 62 IPC in the bank and does not build units in S. Italy (leaving it bare.)  They failed to notice that the French infantry in Syria can take Jordan and open the Suez canal.  Since Germany has no units in place to close it again, the 4 British Transports in SZ 81 (with control of Egypt) can sneak in and take S. Italy.  I would warn my opponent in this case.

For example:  Japan lands 2 strategic bombers on Java.  America is able to open an attack route for Australia and Australia can hit this with a transport in SZ 62.  There are no other units in Java but the two strategic bombers and no naval ships to prevent an unescorted transport from landing troops there.  This is a grey area.  If Japan has a winning stance on the board, I probably would not warn them, if they are getting their butt kicked, I would probably warn them.

For example:  Italy leaves a destroyer picket for the German fleet.  Russia has a submarine that can attack this destroyer allowing the Allied navy to sink the German fleet and invade W. Germany.  I would not warn my opponent in this regard.  1)  It is not a capitol.  2)  It’s the Red Oktober man!  Give it a job function of some value!  3)  Can Opening is a standard practice in the game, players should be more than aware of this.

Essentially, I think, it all boils down to:

1)  Are you winning or losing?  If you are winning, then there is no harm in warning your opponent.  If you are losing, there is still no harm, but you might want to take advantage of some smaller mistakes.
2)  How big is the mistake?  No one wants to win because Germany didn’t defend Berlin enough to stop a solitary Russian transport from taking it.  Then again, if your main goal is to have America invade Japan and the Japanese forget a path into SZ 6, then you might want to rub salt into that wound.
3)  Do you want to play this person again in the future?  Hey, you might scoff, but no one wants to feel cheated and animosity can effect future game play.

[Young Grasshopper]

Ok, so there may be some gray areas, and I think it matters more if the players are the same experience level rather than, 1 game being lopsided or not. However, the thing about leaving a capital bare, and warning them that they have done so, is really baking my noodle. Are you saying that after Hittler tours Paris and after Germany pounds England during sealion, capturing London, that the US is suppose to ignore it’s victory condition of taking every axis capital. I’m sorry, but in this case Germany has taken two of my capitals and I’m not going to let them off the hook, I don’t care if its 1 infantry against my 50 fighters and 2 tanks. If they were smart enough to successfully implement sealion, surly they can use all that money and defend their own capital.

[Gargantua]

A good trick I use, is to ask an opposing player,  “Is it possible for you to capture my capital?  Or sink these transports For example?”

Either they have to LIE to your face, which some people can’t do. Or say whats possible,  and at the same time, both you and they usually check all possibilities regardless at that point.

In a gentleman’s game that’s how it’s done anyways.  And if you don’t ask - than you might receive :P

[Young Grasshopper]

@Gargantua:

A good trick I use, is to ask an opposing player,  “Is it possible for you to capture my capital?  Or sink these transports For example?”

Either they have to LIE to your face, which some people can’t do. Or say whats possible,  and at the same time, both you and they usually check all possibilities regardless at that point.

In a gentleman’s game that’s how it’s done anyways.  And if you don’t ask - than you might receive :P

You must be one hell of a poker player.

[Jay]

I take advantage of mistakes . But I always forgive minor missed things. LIke moving a space or such . Me and my friends ask “if anything can atttack these pieces” questions . Bottom line is I want to win because of good strategy and solid play not because of a stupid mistake.  Would i warn someone they under defended their capitol , depends how expierieced they are . We usually warn no one unless they ask for help reading the bored then questions are answered as honestly as we see. In one on one it’s a lot to look at .

[Jennifer]

Oh, I forgot to mention, in a tournament or league game, your toast!  I am NOT warning you in those games even if you do something REALLY stupid.  It’s for prestige anyway, not for fun at that point.

[Dylan the Canadian]

Everyone’s way too nice. If they do something stupid that bastard has to pay for it. If they leave stupid things open, they die.  :evil:

[Young Grasshopper]

Wow, such different views, I should have attached a poll to this thread.

[suprise attack]

Some of our players will ask the question “is there any way for you to hit this spot with your Boats,Planes,Tanks,etc.” or we’ll ask are you sure you want to do that? Then there are times when you gather up your teammate’s and have a conference in the other room.
   One reason why I like at least 2 on 2 is that you have someone who might notice something that you may have overlooked.
   One of the best way’s to learn is by loosing  like our first or second Global ALPHA+2 games and Russia bought a small Navy that had a Transport in it and Germany wasn’t paying attention and we had a reset pretty quick that night, and ya know what nobody on our board has ever made that mistake since that night
  I’ve noticed on our boards that if you have a win steak going (at least 4 games in a row) sometimes your teammate will point out where to attack you or try to convince them that your a better target than they are.
     Good luck and find the hot dice

[Young Grasshopper]

@suprise:

Some of our players will ask the question “is there any way for you to hit this spot with your Boats,Planes,Tanks,etc.”

When one team asks this question, is it expected that the other team participate fully in the answer every time it is asked?

[cts17]

It can’t be used as a crutch. You need to be aware of the board. My group will never point out mistakes as they’re being made, especially if it’s a juicy mistake like a lone strategic bomber that can be nailed, or can openers that can be hit.

We generally make our opponents think about their moves, especially in these cases, when we ask them if they’re sure if that’s a good move. We also think aloud about the consequences, and if he’s thinking that nothing can hit his unit when there is, we will ‘straighten’ out their thoughts.

But if they’re not thinking about it, it is a logistical game that encompasses the entire world, so our “intelligence reports” are only given when they’re being brought up by the opponent.

[JamesAleman]

I ask the player, if they want me to help them.
If they say yes, I’ll say: “you better look at the board closer, you may have missed something important.”
If its a convoluted detailed plan that creates opportunities for disaster that was turns in the making, I’ll stop at that. Otherwise, in a friendly game, I’ll say, better look at your German fleet, or some other clue.

If they still can not figure it out, I’ll happily show them on my next combat move.  :evil: :mrgreen:

[suprise attack]

Yes

[Stalingradski]

I think it also depends how often you get a chance to play.

Living in a small population area (central Maine), I have one friend I play face to face. Just getting a weekend now and then to play takes a good deal of effort - between kids and work it is a challenge to carve out the time. So, when we play, we both hate to have a 13 turn game end on one stupid mistake… it took us two months to get a chance to play in the first place…

Generally, our rule of thumb in any situation is… have dice been rolled yet? Would it have affected anything going on in the current turn? Typically, if it has little effect on the game, it’s a “no problem, just remember me when I need a break” and then take a drink, or two, or three of beer.

But if dice have already been rolled, or it’s right on the front and will strongly affect the current turn (“oh shoot, by the way I forgot to leave that infantry blocker in front of your mech and armor stack…”), forget about it.

Sometimes seeing your opponent’s mistake becomes a great reason to hurry up with your own purchase, and combat movement, and start rolling the dice… by then, it’s too late…

And after all, war is often about taking advantage of mistakes.

[Young Grasshopper]

So from what I gather, there are many factors (number of players, player skill level, tabletop or online, which player is winning or losing, how often you play ect……) that will determine if it’s going to be a gentelman’s game or a scoundrel’s war.

[Andi]

@Young:

So from what I gather, there are many factors (number of players, player skill level, tabletop or online, which player is winning or losing, how often you play ect……) that will determine if it’s going to be a gentelman’s game or a scoundrel’s war.

Totally agree to that. Nice Thread!

[FieldMarshalGames]

It all depends for me on the level of players I am playing with.  If they are new, I point out critical errors.  If I am plying against a nemesis player…  he is toast!

With a game like 1940 etc, so much time is invested.  You don’t really want to get a “cheap” win because of a simple error…  especially if there are drinks involved!