Beyond 1945

[Mountaineer]

As your Global War games nears the end of 1945, how would you like the game to continue? Any rule adaptations? Guidelines for WW3 with the Soviets?

[GeneralHandGrenade]

That depends on who wins. If the Axis win you could play a game of Amerika. There is no set way that you could continue without knowing the outcome of the game. You could keep playing until two sides were totally annihilated or surrendered instead of stopping at a fixed date. It would be tough for Russia to win that game, beating the Allies or the Axis after one side is gone.

[Midnight_Reaper]

@Mountaineer:

As your Global War games nears the end of 1945, how would you like the game to continue? Any rule adaptations? Guidelines for WW3 with the Soviets?

If you and your group are willing to play a very long game  or set up and tear down / store a game in progress for a while, this might make for a way to both 1) play out the war Winner Take All and 2) help balance things between the two factions. The idea is that after the Allies or the Axis win, the stage is now set for there To Be Only One. How?

After the Axis or the Allies win, the losing side picks their preferred side of the remaining faction (if Axis win, Germany/Italy or Japan; if Allies win, US/UK/USSR as separate factions, US/UK vs. USSR in a two player game) with the winning side of round one taking the faction(s) left.

So, play out the rest of the Turn to the last power/country in the round. Now, losing side picks their new power. Winning side takes what’s left. One turn of moving units as you please, winning side going first, then losing side. Then, one turn of collect income, spend income, non-com. movement, place units.  Next turn - game on! Can the losing side of the first round redeem themselves, or will the winning side do it again?

The balance comes from the fact that you would have to announce use of this variant in advance. All players would need to agree to fight it out twice. Whither balance? If one side of the winning team is massively more powerful than the other side, guess which side the losers will take. Thus, both factions have incentive to not let Japan, or Russian, or the US, get much much more potent than the other sides. Because after getting the beat down from a Wehrmacht 10 times the size of the historical one, Russia will take up the mantle of Germany and proceed to beat down the Japanese with Moscow’s bankroll.

At any rate, it’s a thought.

Another thought / possible optional variation on this idea - if the Allies win, they must to a demobilization. The US and the UK must remove 1/2 of their forces, the USSR must remove 1/3rd of their forces. The “new” owners of the factions decide what to remove from where, with the winners going first and the losers last. The 1/2 is not 1/2 overall, but 1/2 by pieces. Say the US have 20 infantry, 10 tanks, 14 fighters, etc… After demob., they would have 10 infantry, 5 tanks, 7 fighters, etc… Again, the new owners of the factions decide what to remove and where to take it from. I’m sure your former allies, now opponents, will be happy to help you keep count…  :-D

My 2 IPCs

-Midnight_Reaper

[Mountaineer]

Consider the following rules:

1. Having guidelines on the new alliances based on various July 1945 situations.
2. Consider scenarios that may contain strategic surprise such as Unthinkable or a Soviet warplan to grab up the rest of Europe.
3. New technology with late/advanced tanks, jets, and nukes.

[Rank Carcass]

We have played on past the formal last turn several times. We only do this if the players agree that they both think they can still win. We have only continued the game as is, no switching sides or moving units.
This adds some interesting flavour to the game. And can be fun in a what if senareo. Usually this requires players to wish to play for a total victory rather than point awarded victory.
This has occurred when either the allies, comintern or axis, were if not totally at least technically eliminated. The important thing to remember is that if the economics are not close to even, this is not balanced. And will end by eventually out spending the other side. With the map setup as is a giant us presence mostly in the pacific has allowed Russia to fully remove the allies from Europe and uk, evening the economy in a few short turns.

[Chris_Henry]

What Midnight_Reaper said is probably the best solution. Just keep on going the way it is, re-dividing the sides from the victor.

Another option would be to essentially do a re-setup of the game post 1945 depending on how the game played out. This would be a rather herculean task I would think, as it would require multiple setup scenarios. What I mean is:

Different setups for different outcomes. If Allies/Comintern win, redistribute the map/money/pieces in a way that seems accurate to you (probably mostly on historical 1945/Cold War lines). If the Axis wins, same thing, split it up.

This will also depend on the level of victory I would think too. As in, if the Axis wins and totally runs over the USSR, but doesn’t take over the Western Powers, you could have a setup based on that. Reconfigure standing armies and placements, etc. So while Japan may split from Germany/Italy in the Axis, the US and UK would also still be alive and kicking. Maybe you’d also allow the USSR partisan rolls. Would be a miracle for them, but there’s nothing that says they don’t get lucky and could re-spawn everywhere and wreak havoc on the occupying forces.

Same with a Cold War scenario. Maybe Axis powers could be given partisan type abilities, undermining the Western Allies or Comintern occupations.

As I said though, this would require making multiple alternative setup scenarios that maybe you wouldn’t want to do. If maintaining the forces you had at the end of the game is desired, this wouldn’t work. Or, maybe you can just redistribute those surviving units, and give the other surviving powers money/units to balance the game out.

I do wonder if this is in any way what HBG has in mind with their spinoff games. 1861, 1914, 1920’s, 1936, Cold War, Modern, Future, etc. Will they all be linked based off of previous games, or are each stand alone games. I’ve always been a bit unclear which it is.

[Midnight_Reaper]

@Chris_Henry:

What Midnight_Reaper said is probably the best solution. Just keep on going the way it is, re-dividing the sides from the victor.

Thanks!  :-D

@Chris_Henry:

I do wonder if this is in any way what HBG has in mind with their spinoff games. 1861, 1914, 1920’s, 1936, Cold War, Modern, Future, etc. Will they all be linked based off of previous games, or are each stand alone games. I’ve always been a bit unclear which it is.

It’s my understanding that the different starting points for the HBG games are just that, different starting points for a game of all-out, world-wide war. While I suppose you could start in 1861 and fight things across every map and piece set, I think that would be what you did for the year. I don’t have that kind of time these days.

-Midnight_Reaper

[Chris_Henry]

I’m in the same boat Midnight! It would be a monumental task. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating it! It would take an incredible amount of time to figure that out. And really, not sure it’s possible. What if the CSA won the American Civil War, for example. You’d severely weaken the USA for all iterations moving forward in the future campaigns!

[Mountaineer]

I do wonder if this is in any way what HBG has in mind with their spinoff games. 1861, 1914, 1920’s, 1936, Cold War, Modern, Future, etc. Will they all be linked based off of previous games, or are each stand alone games. I’ve always been a bit unclear which it is.

It will be a combination of both. We are discussing a chart to link outcomes to follow on setup, but each game will be able to stand alone.

[Munck]

HBG is working on a “1946 Expansion”. See image of map overlay in the March newsletter:

http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/assets/images/HBG/Battlenews/2018/18-3-15%20HBG%20Newsletter.pdf

[Mountaineer]

6 Scenarios that are conditions based or have a historical setup from 1945/1946
1. Operation Pluto-Плутон-Historical 1946 situation, USSR surprise attack on Western Allies
2. Operation Unthinkable-Western Allied surprise attack on USSR
3. German/USSR Truce
4. German/Western Allied Truce
5. Japan/Western Allied Truce-Japan must declare war on USSR
6. Axis Split-Germany and Japan at war with one another, Japan must declare war on USSR

[Munck]

@Mountaineer:

6 Scenarios that are conditions based or have a historical setup from 1945/1946
1. Operation Pluto-Плутон-Historical 1946 situation, USSR surprise attack on Western Allies
2. Operation Unthinkable-Western Allied surprise attack on USSR
3. German/USSR Truce
4. German/Western Allied Truce
5. Japan/Western Allied Truce-Japan must declare war on USSR
6. Axis Split-Germany and Japan at war with one another, Japan must declare war on USSR

It would be awesome to have these political options late-game.

[Mountaineer]

Working on them now, along with the items and overlays necessary to supplement the game: late tanks, late jets, heavy jet bombers, along with partisans and nukes.

[Mountaineer]

These are the general principles for the scenarios in this expansion.

1. A truce between two combatants is unbreakable until one of those combatant countries captures the capital of another major country. E.G. The German/Western Allied Truce of Germany and Italy with the Western Allies will not be broken unless the Axis captures Moscow or the Western Allies capture Tokyo. The creation of a second capital by some nations does not inhibit this renewal of conflict.
2. All combat in minors and colonies between major countries in truce will cease. Major powers at truce will not allow each other to pass through or overfly any of their territories.
3. Chinese Civil War is identical in every scenario once Japan surrenders. This is an extensive update to accommodate events in China after Japan departs.
4. Japanese surrender will be treated the same in every scenario. This helps generate activity in China but also the US occupation. However, Japanese surrender is not foreordained, just very likely.
5. Free French and Vichy French will merge as one nation if they have not done so.
6. Partisan, Technology, and Diplomacy rules must be used. The partisans become more of the communist and pro-western insurgents familiar to post-WW2 history. There is also the next generation of tanks, aircraft, missiles, and of course–nukes. Finally, the diplomacy rules help generate the next level game play started with Global 36 alignment rules for major country friendly allied acquisition.
7. Adherence to Global 1936, major country reference sheets, and G36 expansions (nuclear, partisan, etc rules) was the baseline for the game, the remainder allows for a semi-historical representation for post nuclear possibilities and the Chinese civil war renewal. Follow the basic rules when in doubt on game mechanics.

[Mountaineer]

All scenarios from July 1945 should apply these partisan rules, they are a critical component to the time period. During each player’s Collect Income and Place Units phase that player may make a partisan generation roll for each territory that was captured (and remains captured) while under their Possession/Control.

Communist Freedom Fighters: Communist Partisans outside the USSR or CCP home country may be converted to Infantry and declare war against the minor, providing income to the major nation if successful. They may also be attacked by any major western power even if the major power is not at war with the USSR or CCP.