17L BM3, cyanight (Axis) vs Arthur Bomber Harris (Allies)

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Going one more round in Slovakia:

2 german arts:
Rolling 2d6:
(1, 6)

4 3’s
Rolling 4d6:
(3, 4, 5, 5)

6 2’s
Rolling 6 d6:
()

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

6 2s again…
Rolling 6d6:
(1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 5)

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.1

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 3 armour and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            5 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Romania
            3 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery and 7 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Poland

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Romania
                Russians attack with 3 armour and 5 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 3 armour and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Slovakia Hungary
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry; Italians defend with
                2 mech_infantrys owned by the Russians, 2 armour owned by the Russians, 1 artillery owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the Russians retreated to Eastern Poland
                Germans win with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
                Casualties for Germans: 3 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 14 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 11 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            2 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Belarus
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Novgorod
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Place Units - Russians
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Slovakia Hungary: 2 artilleries
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 46 PUs
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 49 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 51 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 53 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 62 PUs

triplea_39740_Rus3.tsvg

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Perhaps it would have helped to have declared war on I2?

[cyanight]

Italy would have to be at war with you for you to attack that territory. I assumed that happened the second Germany declared war on Russia. Looks like TripleA thinks otherwise.

Also there is a rule in BM3 that states:

An Axis power may not move its units into originally Russian territory unless that Axis power is at war with Russia.

I would assume the reverse is true.

[cyanight]

Russia has to DOW on Italy to attack Hungary but TripleA didn’t.

[cyanight]

Also noticed 3 artillery in Hungary and only 1 could reach this turn. I will just move that attack back.

[cyanight]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.1

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 3 armour and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            5 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Romania
            3 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery and 7 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Poland

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Romania
                Russians attack with 3 armour and 5 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 3 armour and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Slovakia Hungary
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry; Italians defend with
                2 mech_infantrys owned by the Russians, 2 armour owned by the Russians, 1 artillery owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the Russians retreated to Eastern Poland
                Germans win with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
                Casualties for Germans: 3 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 14 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 11 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            2 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Belarus
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Novgorod
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Place Units - Russians
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Slovakia Hungary: 2 artilleries
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 46 PUs
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 49 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 51 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 53 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 62 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Russians to Germans
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 62 to 56
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Slovakia Hungary: 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 1 artillery, 13 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

triplea_39740_Rus3.tsvg

[cyanight]

Either edit your units from Eastern Poland if you want to move them.  I fiquered you would not want to attack Hungary but if so maybe you should redo the round and DOW on Italy this time. TripleA should have prevented you from attacking but it didn’t.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@cyanight:

Italy would have to be at war with you for you to attack that territory. I assumed that happened the second Germany declared war on Russia. Looks like TripleA thinks otherwise.

I would assume the reverse is true.

The reverse is not true.  That rule was designed to prevent the German horde from walking in behind the Italians and still collect their at-peace bonus.  I will look over the board and get pieces back to where they should be.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

This should be the state of the game before I kept rolling on the forum for Hungary.  I corrected the PUs for Russia by -6.

triplea_39740_Rus3 corrected.tsvg

[cyanight]

That file is not correct. The combat that you resolved in Hungary was invalid as of normal rules.  No nation can attack a land territory with neutral units in it. So Russia needed to declare war on Italy to make the move. TripleA doesn’t handle this correctly. Since the combat resolved as if Italy wasn’t there it is invalid. Italy would have returned rolled and the units remaining would have changed round by round.

[cyanight]

Might just be easier to start Russia’s turn over.

[cyanight]

You resolved 3 rounds of combat in Hungary with TripleA. Your Forum rolling was inaccurate too since it contained 3 artillery and 6 inf instead of 1 art and 2 inf. It doesn’t matter because what was resolved in TripleA did not contain 3 rounds of Italian units fire and change in casualties.  If you want to Keep your initial 7 hits as a roll and I can roll back for Italy’s units and we can continue to roll on here round by round.

Russia - 13 inf, 1 art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 fighter, 1 tactical
7 Hits

Germany - 14inf, 4 art, 3AA
3 Hits
Italian - 2inf, 2art, 2tanks, 1AA
? Hits

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Can you show me the rule that I can’t attack a land territory with neutral units in it?  I haven’t ever seen that, but I am by no means an expert on the rule book.

[Adam514]

I don’t have the rule book but I guarantee that you can’t attack a land territory with neutral units on it. It’s not a rule proper to BM either, it has always been like this.

[cyanight]

Combat: A power can’t attack a territory controlled by or containing units belonging to a power with which it is not at war.

Page 14, Europe Handbook

[cyanight]

Its on Page 15, The big blue box titled “Powers Not at War with One Another”

[gamerman01]

@Adam514:

I don’t have the rule book but I guarantee that you can’t attack a land territory with neutral units on it. It’s not a rule proper to BM either, it has always been like this.

This is right

For land territories, you are not allowed to attack AT ALL if there is a SINGLE unit in it of a power with which you are not at war.
Not to be confused with sea zones where you can totally attack only the units of powers with which you are at war and you can ignore others
Common misconception

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Thanks for the clarification.  My gaming group has not been following the rule properly.  I will redo the turn.