17L BM3, cyanight (Axis) vs Arthur Bomber Harris (Allies)

[cyanight]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.1

Game History

Round: 3

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 artilleries, 3 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Germans and Russians from Neutrality to War
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and British from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and French from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia
                  Germans take Karelia from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Vyborg
                  Germans take Vyborg from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
            9 armour moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone
            10 infantry moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone
            9 armour, 1 artillery, 10 infantry and 10 transports moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 119 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 119 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Scotland to 119 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 119 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            9 armour moved from 110 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 104 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber, 3 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to United Kingdom
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Western Germany to United Kingdom

Combat - Germans
            British scrambles 2 units out of United Kingdom to defend against the attack in 110 Sea Zone
            British scrambles to create a battle in territory 110 Sea Zone
            Battle in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 11 transports
                Russians defend with 1 submarine; British defend with 2 fighters
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans
                2 submarines owned by the Germans Submerged
                Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 11 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Germans: 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
                Casualties for Russians: 1 submarine
                Casualties for British: 2 fighters
            Battle in United Kingdom
                Germans attack with 9 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 bombers, 3 fighters, 11 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers
                French defend with 1 infantry; British defend with 5 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major, 1 harbour, 14 infantry and 1 marine
                Germans captures 28PUs while taking British capital
                Germans converts factory_major into different units
                Germans win, taking United Kingdom from British with 9 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 bombers, 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 51
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 8 infantry
                Casualties for British: 5 aaGuns, 14 infantry and 1 marine
            Trigger Germans Conquer London: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_Axis_Capture_London_Switch attached to Germans
            triggerBritishDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to British

Non Combat Move - Germans
            5 infantry moved from Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            3 aaGuns moved from Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery moved from Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            5 infantry moved from Romania to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary
            2 aaGuns moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 mech_infantry moved from Southern France to Yugoslavia
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
            4 tactical_bombers moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
            2 bombers moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium

Place Units - Germans
            2 artilleries, 3 infantry and 5 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
            5 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 53 PUs; end with 81 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 4 Presence In Egypt: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 86 PUs
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 91 PUs

triplea_39740_Ger3.tsvg

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Going one more round in Slovakia:

2 german arts:
Rolling 2d6:
(1, 6)

4 3’s
Rolling 4d6:
(3, 4, 5, 5)

6 2’s
Rolling 6 d6:
()

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

6 2s again…
Rolling 6d6:
(1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 5)

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.1

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 3 armour and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            5 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Romania
            3 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery and 7 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Poland

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Romania
                Russians attack with 3 armour and 5 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 3 armour and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Slovakia Hungary
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry; Italians defend with
                2 mech_infantrys owned by the Russians, 2 armour owned by the Russians, 1 artillery owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the Russians retreated to Eastern Poland
                Germans win with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
                Casualties for Germans: 3 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 14 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 11 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            2 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Belarus
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Novgorod
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Place Units - Russians
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Slovakia Hungary: 2 artilleries
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 46 PUs
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 49 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 51 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 53 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 62 PUs

triplea_39740_Rus3.tsvg

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Perhaps it would have helped to have declared war on I2?

[cyanight]

Italy would have to be at war with you for you to attack that territory. I assumed that happened the second Germany declared war on Russia. Looks like TripleA thinks otherwise.

Also there is a rule in BM3 that states:

An Axis power may not move its units into originally Russian territory unless that Axis power is at war with Russia.

I would assume the reverse is true.

[cyanight]

Russia has to DOW on Italy to attack Hungary but TripleA didn’t.

[cyanight]

Also noticed 3 artillery in Hungary and only 1 could reach this turn. I will just move that attack back.

[cyanight]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.1

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 3 armour and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            5 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Romania
            3 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            1 artillery and 7 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Poland

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Romania
                Russians attack with 3 armour and 5 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 3 armour and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Slovakia Hungary
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry; Italians defend with
                2 mech_infantrys owned by the Russians, 2 armour owned by the Russians, 1 artillery owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the Russians retreated to Eastern Poland
                Germans win with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
                Casualties for Germans: 3 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 14 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 11 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland
            2 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Belarus
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Novgorod
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Place Units - Russians
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Slovakia Hungary: 2 artilleries
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 46 PUs
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 49 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 51 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 53 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 62 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Slovakia Hungary: 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Slovakia Hungary from Russians to Germans
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 62 to 56
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Slovakia Hungary: 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Eastern Poland: 2 armour, 1 artillery, 13 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

triplea_39740_Rus3.tsvg

[cyanight]

Either edit your units from Eastern Poland if you want to move them.  I fiquered you would not want to attack Hungary but if so maybe you should redo the round and DOW on Italy this time. TripleA should have prevented you from attacking but it didn’t.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@cyanight:

Italy would have to be at war with you for you to attack that territory. I assumed that happened the second Germany declared war on Russia. Looks like TripleA thinks otherwise.

I would assume the reverse is true.

The reverse is not true.  That rule was designed to prevent the German horde from walking in behind the Italians and still collect their at-peace bonus.  I will look over the board and get pieces back to where they should be.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

This should be the state of the game before I kept rolling on the forum for Hungary.  I corrected the PUs for Russia by -6.

triplea_39740_Rus3 corrected.tsvg

[cyanight]

That file is not correct. The combat that you resolved in Hungary was invalid as of normal rules.  No nation can attack a land territory with neutral units in it. So Russia needed to declare war on Italy to make the move. TripleA doesn’t handle this correctly. Since the combat resolved as if Italy wasn’t there it is invalid. Italy would have returned rolled and the units remaining would have changed round by round.

[cyanight]

Might just be easier to start Russia’s turn over.

[cyanight]

You resolved 3 rounds of combat in Hungary with TripleA. Your Forum rolling was inaccurate too since it contained 3 artillery and 6 inf instead of 1 art and 2 inf. It doesn’t matter because what was resolved in TripleA did not contain 3 rounds of Italian units fire and change in casualties.  If you want to Keep your initial 7 hits as a roll and I can roll back for Italy’s units and we can continue to roll on here round by round.

Russia - 13 inf, 1 art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 fighter, 1 tactical
7 Hits

Germany - 14inf, 4 art, 3AA
3 Hits
Italian - 2inf, 2art, 2tanks, 1AA
? Hits

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Can you show me the rule that I can’t attack a land territory with neutral units in it?  I haven’t ever seen that, but I am by no means an expert on the rule book.

[Adam514]

I don’t have the rule book but I guarantee that you can’t attack a land territory with neutral units on it. It’s not a rule proper to BM either, it has always been like this.

[cyanight]

Combat: A power can’t attack a territory controlled by or containing units belonging to a power with which it is not at war.

Page 14, Europe Handbook

[cyanight]

Its on Page 15, The big blue box titled “Powers Not at War with One Another”

[gamerman01]

@Adam514:

I don’t have the rule book but I guarantee that you can’t attack a land territory with neutral units on it. It’s not a rule proper to BM either, it has always been like this.

This is right

For land territories, you are not allowed to attack AT ALL if there is a SINGLE unit in it of a power with which you are not at war.
Not to be confused with sea zones where you can totally attack only the units of powers with which you are at war and you can ignore others
Common misconception