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China too weak



  • Don't know about any of you guys but, I got my copy of AAP40 and Ive only played one game, but China seems much too weak. I played as Japan and never once had to send any additional units to my china front, not counting the units from Manchuria, and was able to easily take all of china in a few turns. I thought that the Chinese were supposed to be a major thorn in the Japanese side in the game but china was a pushover in my game. It seems like the chinese were much more a force in the old pacific. Just my two cents. What have your experiences with china in the new game been like



  • Think of the China territories as a Chess board.  I constantly move and reposition my strongpoints with China.  Early on I try to hold on to the Burma road territories as long as possible, but after a few turns I retreat from those areas.  I think alot of players early on here have clung to the Szcheswan territory and tried to fortify that since the Tiger fighter originates there and its the beginning of the Burma road.  The ability to place units on any territory even if its newly accuired is very usefull.  Retake Yunnan in round one, then place 4 inf there.  This ability is very annoying for the Japan player.  My strategy usually is to try to hold on to Yunnan and Szechwan if I can, but then retreat into the interior territories and draw the Japanese all the way to the edge and northwest corner of the map.



  • I've typically used the Chinese as rear-defence for the British and as a threat to Japanese areas.

    If I see the Japanese leave space open in China, I drop my troops there. It forces my opponent to draw off some forces from the British or give up a few IPCs and face more of the Chinese whack-a-mole attacks.



  • China is plenty strong enough to serve it's purpose. It can have infantry pop up anywhere, so Japan must cover every front. Also, combining their infantry and Flying Tigers with British units in Yunnan creates a powerful defensive stack.


  • 2010

    @Butcher:

    China is plenty strong enough to serve it's purpose. It can have infantry pop up anywhere, so Japan must cover every front. Also, combining their infantry and Flying Tigers with British units in Yunnan creates a powerful defensive stack.

    So do the infantry have the ability to pop up where Japan took over a territory but do not have a troop garrisoned there?

    Sean



  • Sorry if the wording was unclear, I meant any territory China controls.



  • I have played 6 games so far and in one of them China was completely conquered.
    I always leave the fighter behind (of course) and place one or two new inf with it, to prevent a strafing attack. Admittedly, if the British fall, then China is in real trouble, with no allies to retake the BUrma road.
    I never seen China being able to build art by the way.



  • I've only played two games so far.  And China is weak.  But not overly to weak.  I don't think they could hold their own.  But as long as UK is in the fight.  Then they are a viable fight force (especially when you keep the Burma road open).  If China does well the first 2 or 3 rounds then Japan has a problem because they'll have US breathing down neck.



  • I think it depends who is playing China and what strategy they are using…China can be a major pebble in Japan's shoe if played right...I have played China twice...once i got crushed and the 2nd time i gave Japan so much trouble that he had to build an IC in Shanghai to deal with me and it cost him the game in the Pacific....



  • I think China is a trade off. Japan has the capacity to crush China with little trouble, but in order to do so she has to forgo hitting the rest of the Allies early in the game with her full power. On the other hand, if Japan wants to prevent the Brits from making all that extra money in the DEI, then China will likely be a bigger pain in the neck as Brit forces will be able to fight the Japanese simultaneously.



  • Here is the problem….what japan has that starts on mainland asia, in contact with what is china, is sufficent to strangle china, each turn, if you crawl south-west with your infantry and artillery, and china trys to hold the road (logical strategy) then you just choke them. they lose 3 territores a turn, and so long as britain doesnt declare war early, then you just roll over china

    as UK you NEED to get china an AA gun, negating the japanese advatage which is:
    Japan can win any one fight on the mainland by throwing 10 or so planes in with its land forces.

    UK 1 I build an AA gun now, and send one to burma, ready to move it into china when war starts.

    Soviet forces on the border with japan could change alot of the mechanics of the china battle. The jap player wont empty korea and manchuria for long, EVEN IF USSR cant attack them untill a condition is met somewhere, just because it feels ackward to leave border territories empty, with 4 or so infantry and who knows what else on the other side.



  • The AA gun is critical.  I also buy an AA move it to China, and place the second AA in Burma.  The Burma AA makes it tough for any SBR on India, meaning you get three sets of AA roles if they conduct SBR on the mainland.  My oponnent the other day recognized this and tried to set up shop in Sumatra to SBR.



  • @RogertheShrubber:

    The AA gun is critical.  I also buy an AA move it to China, and place the second AA in Burma.  The Burma AA makes it tough for any SBR on India, meaning you get three sets of AA roles if they conduct SBR on the mainland.  My oponnent the other day recognized this and tried to set up shop in Sumatra to SBR.

    AAP40Rulebook>page25>Antiaircraft Guns>paragraph2>
    "Air Defense:  An antiaircraft gun can only fire at an air unit when that unit attacks the territory containing that antiaircraft gun.  It does not contribute to the defense of industrial complexes, airbase, or naval bases.  These facilities are considered to have their own built-in antiaircraft defense system."

    Only 1 die for each strategic bomber.


  • Community Liaison TripleA 2011 2010

    China can win but only through counter-attack, you can't beat Japan by blocking thier path with units on defence.

    Instead, let them take ground for FREE during thier move, and then counter thier infantry 1 at a time through counter-attacks.  This severely limits the amount of troops japan can keep on the ground, and in turn, restricts the amount of aircraft they can use to support them (Because Japan is not likely to suicide fgts and tac bmb's into plain chinese infantry)

    This has been an effective method, each time I've used it.  It helps the allied effort, by forcing japan to commit more and more troops.

    In short - Play hide and seek with Japanese Aircraft.



  • @BadSpeller:

    @RogertheShrubber:

    The AA gun is critical.  I also buy an AA move it to China, and place the second AA in Burma.  The Burma AA makes it tough for any SBR on India, meaning you get three sets of AA roles if they conduct SBR on the mainland.  My oponnent the other day recognized this and tried to set up shop in Sumatra to SBR.

    AAP40Rulebook>page25>Antiaircraft Guns>paragraph2>
    "Air Defense:  An antiaircraft gun can only fire at an air unit when that unit attacks the territory containing that antiaircraft gun.  It does not contribute to the defense of industrial complexes, airbase, or naval bases.  These facilities are considered to have their own built-in antiaircraft defense system."

    Only 1 die for each strategic bomber.

    Sorry I still play a lot of classic and AAE, and we carry over that rule to the games in my play group.  My bad.



  • @!ACHTUNG!:

    @Gargantua:

    China can win but only through counter-attack, you can't beat Japan by blocking thier path with units on defence.

    Instead, let them take ground for FREE during thier move, and then counter thier infantry 1 at a time through counter-attacks.  This severely limits the amount of troops japan can keep on the ground, and in turn, restricts the amount of aircraft they can use to support them (Because Japan is not likely to suicide fgts and tac bmb's into plain chinese infantry)

    This has been an effective method, each time I've used it.  It helps the allied effort, by forcing japan to commit more and more troops.

    In short - Play hide and seek with Japanese Aircraft.

    WOW, YOU SOUND LIKE YOU HAVE PLAYED THIS VERSION A LOT. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED THIS GAME? WORD ON THE STREET IS ONCE. SHOULD YOU REALLY BE OFFERING ADVICE TO ANYONE AT THIS POINT??

    Word is on the street that you should let go of the SHIFT button once in a while.



  • @Woodstock:

    @!ACHTUNG!:

    @Gargantua:

    China can win but only through counter-attack, you can't beat Japan by blocking thier path with units on defence.

    Instead, let them take ground for FREE during thier move, and then counter thier infantry 1 at a time through counter-attacks.  This severely limits the amount of troops japan can keep on the ground, and in turn, restricts the amount of aircraft they can use to support them (Because Japan is not likely to suicide fgts and tac bmb's into plain chinese infantry)

    This has been an effective method, each time I've used it.  It helps the allied effort, by forcing japan to commit more and more troops.

    In short - Play hide and seek with Japanese Aircraft.

    WOW, YOU SOUND LIKE YOU HAVE PLAYED THIS VERSION A LOT. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED THIS GAME? WORD ON THE STREET IS ONCE. SHOULD YOU REALLY BE OFFERING ADVICE TO ANYONE AT THIS POINT??

    Word is on the street that you should let go of the SHIFT button once in a while.

    QFT!

    How many alter ego's does aldertag have?

    Seriously though, I played one game the other day as Japan and the allied player just gave up with China after a few turns.  If you can convince the allied played that China is a no hoper like AA50, there is half the battle won.  He just turtled in Burma with all the Brits and I slowly advanced and took them out.  he hid his fleet in British waters too off the coast of India doing nothing with it for the entire game.

    Once Britain was gone it was game over as I had 6 cities.

    I think China could be a major headache to Japan.  But in this scenario where I went all out for Britain first, China is dependent on ANZAC and USA doing something to force Japan's hand further west.



  • I have played 3 gmaes of PAC40, and a million of all other varients.
    There ain't no way for China to win if Japan doesn't want them to, same goes for india.
    Ther is a chance that India can hold out long enough for the US and ANZAC to come to the rescue but only with great playing skill and Tremendous Dice rolling.

    I do agree though, either China is too weak or probably more accuratly, Japan is too strong.



  • Yesterday I played my first game as "Allies" and won. We always play "lowluck", but still I had the luck the Japanese - after a great agressive turn 1! - in wich they killed UK swiftly, went for Anzac and failed to take out both the Chinese and Anzac.

    My intention at the start of this game was to pump US and Anzac fighters into UK and China for defense. This plan horribly failed. I could only bring fighters to Siam or Malaya (from airbase at Queensland), but this was/is not safe at all.

    How to solve this? How can the allies get these planes to UK safely? Built an airbase in east Australia (what's the territory's name?) so fighters can fly directly to India…or what?



  • How many IPC China has in the first round?
    12 or 18?  (including Burma Road immediatly?)



  • china starts with 12 IPC cash on hand
    by the end of their first turn they have around 15 IPC if they get back their bonus



  • Last game I tried running with China, just backing up and blocking and eventually stacked 16 plus the flying tiger somewhere up in the North.  It did distract a decent amount of Japanese ground units.



  • @spectre_04:

    Last game I tried running with China, just backing up and blocking and eventually stacked 16 plus the flying tiger somewhere up in the North.  It did distract a decent amount of Japanese ground units.

    For the most part, distraction is all China can do. It allows the British some breathing room against the Japanese. If you're lucky they can even hold down the mainland for two turns, eating away at the time you have to wait for US reinforcements. In the end, I've found them more a nuisance for the Japanese and a mild rear-guard for the Brits.



  • Its the UK I feel bad for, by turn 3 or 4 they are down to 2-4 IPCs a turn, esp with Jap subs next to India.


 

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