13L G40 NT Arathorn (Axis) vs. Infrastructure (Allies +13)

arathorn

OK, here are my thoughts.

I don’t like your MO, Arathorn.
First of all, you did your battles out of order.� According to the rulebook, you must roll the battle in India before your battle in Z35, Z43, and Yunnan.
Second of all, when you’ve already had a dispute with Infrastructure and you know he’s upset with you, it is ill-advised to roll through a big battle that has a scramble decision, and dictate how it will be handled if your opponent had a different decision.� I mean, especially when you’re saying that you will re-roll the whole battle.� It is not a good idea to roll out a big battle, telling your opponent you may re-roll the whole thing if they want to make a different choice, in my opinion.

Third, I am baffled that Infrastructure doesn’t just take your re-roll option, because the battle went very well for the Axis.� There was only one bombardment hit out of 3.� Other than an AA hit, the first round did not go well for the Allies, and neither did the following rounds.
That said, Infrastructure is saying that since he would have scrambled the tac to stop bombardment, he thinks the first round dice minus tac and minus bombardment should stand.
I agree with Infrastructure and I would go 1 further.� I think all the dice should stand, as much as possible.� Therefore, if you take his tac out of the battle, then you have 1 less defending “3”.

I receive your correction. I purposely rolled India last, since I didn’t want to have to roll through and edit all the others afterwards.

I also should have controlled my character flaw of patience, and just waited for his decision.

I will edit according to your ruling.

arathorn

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Japanese
Japanese buy 1 artillery, 3 destroyers and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Kwangtung
2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangtung
3 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
2 infantry moved from Hopei to Suiyuyan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
1 armour, 3 artilleries, 8 infantry and 6 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to India
2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
Battle in Kwangtung
Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
British defend with 1 harbour and 2 infantry
Japanese win, taking Kwangtung from UK_Pacific with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for British: 2 infantry
Battle in 35 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
Japanese win with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
Battle in 43 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
British defend with 1 destroyer
Japanese win, taking 43 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
Battle in Yunnan
Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
Chinese defend with 3 infantry
Japanese win with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
Casualties for Japanese: 3 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 3 infantry
Battle in 41 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 submarine
British defend with 1 transport
Japanese win, taking 41 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
Casualties for British: 1 transport
Battle in India
Japanese attack with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 8 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
ANZAC defend with 1 fighter; British defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; UK_Pacific defend with 1 factory_major
Japanese captures 24PUs while taking UK_Pacific capital
Japanese converts factory_major into different units
Japanese win, taking India from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 29
Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter and 4 infantry
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter
Casualties for British: 1 aaGun, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Japanese
2 tactical_bombers moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
2 bombers moved from India to Kwangsi
1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from 43 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
2 fighters moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
3 artilleries moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
1 artillery moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
3 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
1 aaGun moved from Jehol to Anhwe
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Suiyuyan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
1 battleship, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
3 destroyers and 2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 6 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 36 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
1 artillery placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
Japanese collect 33 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 73 PUs
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 bomber
EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 39 Sea Zone: 1 tactical_bomber
EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 tactical_bomber
EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 fighter
EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 39 Sea Zone: 1 fighter
EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Japanese owned units to: battleship = 1
EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to India: 2 infantry
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Japanese owned units to: battleship = 0
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Kwangsi: 1 tactical_bomber
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

gamerman01

Yes, I didn’t understand your edits to planes and infantry at first.
You should replace one unit because his tactical had scored a hit on land.
The bombardment hit effectively made no difference, because his extra infantry missed.

I believe in keeping original dice rolled as much as possible, which is what Infrastructure was arguing as well, it appears.

arathorn

Sounds good.

I have now used the same map, and I removed the damage on the battleship since the tactical missed, and I added back a tactical that I took as casualty choice.

boldfresh

Wait was arathorn just rewarded by doing what infra wanted? :-P

MrRoboto

Wow Infra - you’ve done two elementary mistakes now within a week, that did cost you the game in both cases (this game and the one against me). From what I’ve seen from you so far that seems unusual. Better step up your concentration in the playoffs :-)

Good luck on this one - it seems you’ll need it to have a chance for a comeback.

Major Major

@MrRoboto:

Wow Infra - you’ve done two elementary mistakes now within a week, that did cost you the game in both cases (this game and the one against me). From what I’ve seen from you so far that seems unusual. Better step up your concentration in the playoffs :-)

Good luck on this one - it seems you’ll need it to have a chance for a comeback.

The difference roboto, is i loast our game because my brain was still back in alpha rules for russia/london in this game it was my intent and plan to do excatly what i did except declare war with france which i missed because i tried to get my turn in before work. so a slight mental slip that everyone i’ve talked to would have let me fix in the name of fairplay. Alas not in this instance.

Major Major

gamer if we are playing true to dice wouldn’t my tact have hit the fleet?

arathorn

Since it was removed from the battle, the hit was removed.
When added to another battle, it had to be rerolled, since that battle had never happened, and no dice from that battle has been recorded, since it didn’t exist before the scramble decision.

There is no original dice to be kept in that battle.

gamerman01

@Infrastructure:

gamer if we are playing true to dice wouldn’t my tact have hit the fleet?

TBH I am confused about which dice we’re using here.

At first I thought it still needed to be rolled (tac vs. fleet), so I rolled it and the tac missed.
I’m not sure what Arathorn did or when he did it.

If Arathorn rolled dice for the tac before I came along and did it on the forum, then I think that dice roll should count.
Original dice should count as much as possible.

Infrastructure, can you check your dice e-mail and see what the time stamp was on the Z39 battle the first time it was rolled on the Triple A dice server?

arathorn

If we’re back to actually using the reroll, then yes, his tactical hit. But my rerolls were not accepted.

gamerman01

A “re-roll” was necessary because the original didn’t include a scramble.

Unless we REALLY stick with original dice rolled, then we use his first round tactical hit.

Come on, Arathorn, you already got an extra plane put back on and this hit doesn’t even sink a ship. Take the hit and play on.

arathorn

@Gamerman01:

A “re-roll” was necessary because the original didn’t include a scramble.

Unless we REALLY stick with original dice rolled, then we use his first round tactical hit.

Come on, Arathorn, you already got an extra plane put back on and this hit doesn’t even sink a ship.� Take the hit and play on.

I accept it. Just edit it in.

Major Major

@Boldfresh:

Wait was arathorn just rewarded by doing what infra wanted?Â Â :-P

The reroll is more because it is what i would have done. I always play based on intent of a player whenever possible. The odds were better for me in that battle if I scrambled, so that is what i would have done and did. I always like to stay true to dice which is why it is always good to ask in any questionable situation. If I wanted to get really picky he should have rolled the india battle first as it was amphibious (after the scramble request). but i already know he’s not about playing a fun clean game. He’s about winning under any circumstance.

Major Major

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Americans
Americans buy 1 carrier, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 submarine and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans

Non Combat Move - Americans
1 fighter moved from Hawaiian Islands to 54 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 25 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Central America to 89 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 89 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry moved from Southeast Mexico to Central United States
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Eastern United States
1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
1 aaGun, 1 carrier, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 2 transports moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

Place Units - Americans
1 infantry placed in Central United States
1 carrier, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 101 Sea Zone
2 fighters placed in 101 Sea Zone
Americans undo move 2.
1 carrier, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 101 Sea Zone
Note to player Americans: America has joined the Allies, and declared war on the Axis!
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral

Turn Complete - Americans
Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 35 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,4
Americans collect 50 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 51 PUs total
Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 56 PUs
Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 61 PUs
Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs
Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 76 PUs

gamerman01

@Infrastructure:

The reroll is more because it is what i would have done.

I appreciate the integrity here.

I always play based on intent of a player whenever possible. The odds were better for me in that battle if I scrambled, so that is what i would have done and did. I always like to stay true to dice which is why it is always good to ask in any questionable situation. If I wanted to get really picky he should have rolled the india battle first as it was amphibious (after the scramble request). but i already know he’s not about playing a fun clean game. He’s about winning under any circumstance.

It’s true, you could have made an issue over the out of order combat, because that was against the rulebook.

Time to move on.

arathorn

The “out of order” was intentional, to avoid having to edit all the other stuff, should there be a dispute.

gamerman01

It was intentional and it was wrong.

You should have done amphibious assault first, and then waited for scramble decision before rolling any dice.

Plus that would have prevented this latest misunderstanding

gamerman01

@Gamerman01:

You should have done amphibious assault first, and then waited for scramble decision before rolling any dice.

Now I’M confused.

No, you should have waited for the scramble decision before rolling any dice at all, according to the rule book.
Then you should roll SBR, then amphibious assaults, then all others.

If you are playing with someone who will understand and you agree, then I can see running through all your battles, it’s only 1 tactical that would scramble so you do everything and roll India last and give him maps etc. etc. and roll everything and say if he wants to change it, blah blah blah

But after majorly disappointing Infrastructure with your denial of the French DOW and invasion of India, I think it was poor judgement how you handled this Japan turn. You need to play it by the book from here out.

gamerman01

I am also aware of how you operated a G1 vs. JDOW without asking for scramble decisions for UK, saying “no good player would scramble”.

This is an ill-advised practice, and I think you should stop. Only do such things with players you know well who you know will not mind.

13L G40 NT Arathorn (Axis) vs. Infrastructure (Allies +13)

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