Welcome! If you're a returning member of the forums, please reset your password. If you don't receive an email within minutes, it means your account is listed under another, likely older, email address. Contact webmaster@axisandallies.org for help.

Can you hold your buy?



  • Can you choose not to place your buy one turn, then place it with next turn’s buy?


  • '12

    Yes, but there are some subtleties.

    Page 12 of the Europe `40 2e rules says:

    You must collect income if you can, but **_all other parts of the turn sequence are voluntary.  Thus, you are allowed to buy units at the start of the turn but skip completely your ability to place units at the end of the turn.

    However, when describing the rules for placing units, page 23 says:

    Move the newly purchased units from the mobilization zone on the game board to eligible spaces you have controlled since the start of your turn.  So, if you decide you are going to place any unit at all, it is an all-or-nothing approach.  You couldn’t decide to place half your units and then save the other half for later.

    Later on, the rules say that if you purchased more units than you have the ability to place, you have to sell the excess back and collect a refund.  So I suspect that the designers’ preference would be for you to only save money, never units, but the rules as written do allow you to save your unplaced units._**


  • Official Answers

    @ghr2:

    Can you choose not to place your buy one turn, then place it with next turn’s buy?

    No, you cannot.

    @Eggman:

    Yes, but there are some subtleties.

    Page 12 of the Europe `40 2e rules says:

    You must collect income if you can, but **_all other parts of the turn sequence are voluntary.  Thus, you are allowed to buy units at the start of the turn but skip completely your ability to place units at the end of the turn.

    However, when describing the rules for placing units, page 23 says:

    Move the newly purchased units from the mobilization zone on the game board to eligible spaces you have controlled since the start of your turn.  So, if you decide you are going to place any unit at all, it is an all-or-nothing approach.  You couldn’t decide to place half your units and then save the other half for later.

    Later on, the rules say that if you purchased more units than you have the ability to place, you have to sell the excess back and collect a refund.  So I suspect that the designers’ preference would be for you to only save money, never units, but the rules as written do allow you to save your unplaced units.

    The quoted statement from page 23 is very clear.  You must move the purchased units to the board.  The only exception is the one specifically made for the case in which there is insufficient production capacity.  Mobilizing units is only voluntary in the sense that you don’t have to purchase them in the first place._**


  • '12

    @Krieghund:

    The quoted statement from page 23 is very clear.  You must move the purchased units to the board.  The only exception is the one specifically made for the case in which there is insufficient production capacity.  Mobilizing units is only voluntary in the sense that you don’t have to purchase them in the first place.

    That’s fine, then the printed rules are in error.  If you are forced to place all your purchased units, then the mobilize units phase is not voluntary as specified in the previous rule on page 12.


  • '12

    @Eggman:

    Mobilizing units is only voluntary in the sense that you don’t have to purchase them in the first place.

    I suspected that was the case, but that’s not what the rules as written say.



  • I wouldn’t say the rules are incorrect.  All other sequences are voluntary, however Purchase is directly linked to Mobilize.  So if you elect to purchase you are also electing to mobilize.  A little misleading but I wouldn’t say the rules are incorrect.



  • ANZAC purchases 4 units during the purchase new units phase, than later realizes during the place new units phase, that they only have 1 Minor IC. Does ANZAC lose all four units?, do they lose one unit?, if so, who decides which? can they place three units and save one to be placed next turn? can ANZAC even place new units if they buy to many?… what the hell?


  • '12

    @Young:

    ANZAC purchases 4 units during the purchase new units phase, than later realizes during the place new units phase, that they only have 1 Minor IC. Does ANZAC lose all four units?, do they lose one unit?, if so, who decides which? can they place three units and save one to be placed next turn? can ANZAC even place new units if they buy to many?… what the hell?

    I mentioned earlier the rules explicitly say if you have too many units to place compared to available IC capacity, you have to turn in the excess for a refund.



  • I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap). So what is it now… what if someone doesn’t want to place a lone transport because they didn’t see the bomber that could reach it? do they get a refund for that, are they forced to place it and lose $7, or is it only when you can’t place it due to IC capacity?



  • @Young:

    I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap). So what is it now… what if someone doesn’t want to place a lone transport because they didn’t see the bomber that could reach it? do they get a refund for that, are they forced to place it and lose $7, or is it only when you can’t place it due to IC capacity?

    Only when you can’t place due to capacity.  If things didn’t go your way, or you missed a vulnerability, you have to place as best you can and hope your opponent didn’t notice.

    But…  other than the requirement to locate a carrier, I’m not certain that you’re required to place optimally.  So, in theory you could place all land units at your only factory adjacent to a seazone, thereby causing your boats to get refunded.  But you’d have to have enough land units purchased and limited factories to manage that.


  • Official Answers

    @Young:

    I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap).

    I believe you are mistaken.

    @kcdzim:

    But…  other than the requirement to locate a carrier, I’m not certain that you’re required to place optimally.

    Yes, you are.  You must mobilize all of the units that you can.


  • TripleA '12

    Krieghund, can you please explain the reasoning that went into the differences in the rules for the Mobilize New Units phase, from 50th Anniversary Edition to the new Europe & Pacific 1940 games? It seems to me that the older way was better (AA50) in that if you’d purchased more units than you could place then the superfluous units remained in the mobilization zone until your next turn.

    And while you’re at it, would you mind explaining the thought processes that went into the differences in the rules for the Research & Development phase from AA50, and the optional rules for Technology in the new Global 1940 game? I would specifically like to know why the rules have changed so that each attempt at tech is now a one-shot only chance (Global), whereas in AA50 you could buy tech tokens that you could keep between turns to allow you to try for a tech until you were successful. Again, I preferred the old way as the tech tokens were more of an investment and I think that AA50 really got it right there. As it is now, my gaming group very rarely buys tech anymore when playing Global 1940.

    If you have already posted on these subjects before then forgive me, I must have missed it. Thank you very much for your consideration.  🙂


  • Customizer

    Lozmoid,
    Why don’t you just house rule the tech tokens from AA50 into your Global 40 game? That’s what we do. Ever since AA50, we have never rolled for tech without buying the tokens first.

    As for purchasing and mobilizing units, it seems pretty clear to me. If you purchase more units than you can mobilize, then you mobilize what you can and the remaining units wait until next round, or you simply add the cost of that unit(s) back into your IPC total to spend next round. Also, if you have any units that didn’t get placed and you lose your capital, those units are simply lost.
    Frankly, I don’t understand why you would purchase units if you didn’t intend to mobilize them. Why not simply save the IPCs and use them next turn. That seems much simpler and more flexible to me.

    Say you bought a tank that you for some reason don’t mobilize. Then next round things change on the board and you decide you want navy. Now you are stuck with that tank. However, if you simply saved those 6 IPCs, you could now buy a submarine instead.


  • TripleA '12

    Hi knp7765,

    Thanks for your input.

    Why don’t you just house rule the tech tokens from AA50 into your Global 40 game? That’s what we do. Ever since AA50, we have never rolled for tech without buying the tokens first.

    Well, I’ve always preferred to play OOB rules as written because that’s how the designer intended them, so I’ve never really used house rules. But I think, in this instance, I may do so.

    As for purchasing and mobilizing units, it seems pretty clear to me. If you purchase more units than you can mobilize, then you mobilize what you can and the remaining units wait until next round, or you simply add the cost of that unit(s) back into your IPC total to spend next round. Also, if you have any units that didn’t get placed and you lose your capital, those units are simply lost.

    Frankly, I don’t understand why you would purchase units if you didn’t intend to mobilize them. Why not simply save the IPCs and use them next turn. That seems much simpler and more flexible to me.

    Oh, I’m not saying the rules aren’t clear; I just wanted to know why they changed it. I liked the way it was in AA50 where you could hold excess units over until your next turn - that way they were never lost. However, I completely agree with you with regard to why would anyone buy more units than they could actually place. But it happens sometimes, especially in something like TripleA. It seems to me that AA50 did one way, and Global 1940 does it another way. I’m not aware that you can do either/or in Global. I’m pretty sure that you have to sell the extra units back to the bank in Global; I don’t recall an option of holding them over until next turn…

    I don’t have any of the rulebooks in front of me now, but can anyone confirm whether it strictly says that you CANNOT purchase more units than you can legally place? Thanks very much.


  • Official Answers

    You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

    The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

    The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.


  • TripleA '12

    You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

    Understood. Thanks very much, Krieg!

    The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

    And that’s fair enough, I understand WotC decision to do that. However, I’m baffled as to why they went back to the old rule as written in the rulebooks prior to AA50. Surely they could have printed the tech token rule from AA50 in the Europe/Global 1940 rulebook, and then added something along the lines of “feel free to use whatever items you wish for the tokens, coins, bits of paper etc”. Can you see what I’m saying? I feel that the Global tech rules were a step backward.

    The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.

    Strewth! How intriguing… was it to do with Major and Minor ICs being in the game now? I’m not sure how… Anyone else?  🙂


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    How much does a sheet of Research Tokens cost?

    $0.05? on a hundred dollar game?!?!?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Krieg! Tell us…

    What other COOL stuff has WOTC cost cut?


  • Official Answers

    Trade-offs are always being made.  We may have lost Researcher tokens and paper IPCs, but we’ve gained lots of cool new sculpts.  You can always make your own tokens and IPCs…



  • @Krieghund:

    You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

    The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

    The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.

    Pretend we are all too dumb to think of it ourselves.  What loophole in particular?


  • '12

    @ghr2:

    Pretend we are all too dumb to think of it ourselves.  What loophole in particular?

    One possibility is that a country about to lose their capital makes their last buy but doesn’t place it.  Then the units sit in limbo until the capital is liberated- at which point you get replacement units on the map one turn faster than you would otherwise.  Not anything I would call a game-breaking exploit.



  • I guess you could potentially spend money on units you couldn’t place right before you know your capital is going to be taken meaning less money for the person sacking it.  I don’t think this would be significant enough to be considered the aforementioned “terrible loophole”


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    Like if USA liberates London or Calcutta


  • Customizer

    @elzario:

    I guess you could potentially spend money on units you couldn’t place right before you know your capital is going to be taken meaning less money for the person sacking it.  I don’t think this would be significant enough to be considered the aforementioned “terrible loophole”

    Yeah, I thought of that possibility. Like say Moscow is totally surrounded by German units and Russia somehow has $20 to spend but perhaps can’t really buy any infantry because thier factory is bombed to the max. So they go and buy a battleship which of course can’t be placed by a land-locked IC so it is “held in limbo” until Russia manages to get an IC by the ocean. However, in reality, next round Germany takes Moscow and the battleship in limbo is simply lost so Russia can say “Ha ha, there’s 20 IPCs you won’t get from me.”


  • TripleA

    @Europe:

    In the event that you purchased more units than you can
    actually mobilize due to production limitations, you must
    return the over-produced units to the box (your choice of
    units), and the cost of the units is reimbursed to you.

    i never noticed this rule before. it opens up an interesting overpurchase tactic.


Log in to reply
 

Welcome to the new forums! For security and technical reasons, we did not migrate your password. Therefore to get started, please reset your password. You may use your email address or username. Please note that your username is not your display name.

If you're having problems, please send an email to webmaster@axisandallies.org

T-shirts, Hats, and More

Suggested Topics

I Will Never Grow Up Games

62
Online

13.3k
Users

33.6k
Topics

1.3m
Posts