The general consensus seems to be that when you are attempting to protect your transports carriers fighters and destroyers give the best returns for the income invested.

However in a large scale naval battle requiring full movement the attacking player is at a disadvantage because their carriers cannot take hits without sacrificing the planes they carry. Meanwhile the defender can assign hits to their carriers the same way they would with battleships and have their planes land in adjacent friendly islands.

So, when you need something to turn the tables in the Pacific and break the defensive arms race what is the most cost effective purchase?

I would argue submarines but I’m interested to know what you think.

Submarine - This is the best purchase. Because you need to spare your carriers you need units that can absorb casualties. Submarines are the cheapest naval units you can field and they have the same combat score as destroyers. They force the other player to buy destroyers to defend their fleet and they lose economically paying 8 for a 2 when you only pay 6.

Strategic bombers are consistent in damage, but do they out damage 2 submarines?

You don’t need to abandon the Pacific if your goal is Calcutta on J4. Calcutta normally falls J4 through the natural progression of your first few buys.

It is important to keep track of your transports. You can purchase 3 of them J1. An artillery is included as well

If you follow a traditional J1 attack you control the following at the end of the turn:

• FIC
• Kwangtung
• Phillipines
• Borneo
• a few northern chinese zones

you don’t control:

• Yunnan

Your transports are at:
2x phillipines
1x borneo
3x Japan

and most of your planes are in Kwangsi

On J2 you buy:

• a factory for FIC
• navy to contest the US and Anzac + more ground units on Tokyo

Your transports in the south Pacific spread out and each take a DEI so that you collect your objective J2.
Your transports in SZ 6 sail down and unload in FIC

Using your aircraft and surrounding ground units you take and hold Yunnan J2. This often requires attacking Szechwan as well.

Additionally 2 of your bombers in Kwangsi attack the India factory.
Send 2 submarines in SZ 35 to convoy SZ 37

Now at end of J2 turn you additionally control:

• DEI
• Yunnan
• Factory in FIC with reinforcements unloaded from Tokyo

Your 6 transports are at:

• 1x Sumatra
• 1x Java
• 1x Celebes
• 3x FIC

J3 you buy:
3 bombers at FIC
naval to contest USA and Anzac + transports / ground units to continue invasion of China, defend DEI, prepare for invasion of Australia

You attack and hold Burma (units that landed in FIC can be picked up w/ 3x transports and brought to assist in this fight)
You attack and hold Malaya (3x transports in DEI + some air can secure Malaya)
You bomb the factory in India again and land in FIC
Move subs in SZ 37 to SZ 39
Kill any remaining UK Pacific Navy and ensure small planes are landed in Yunnan (optional shan state if you have spare units) or Carriers within range of India

UK Pacific should have ~ 5 to spend on defense, their factory has been destroyed twice, and they were convoyed in SZ 37 UKPac 2 and SZ 39 UKPac 3

J4 you buy:
irrelevant to India attack

You attack India with:

• land units based in Burma (feel free to load them on transports and land in India)
• bombardments from battleships and cruisers
• land units based in Malaya (same units that hit DEI J2, these pieces have been moving)
• up to 6 carrier based aircraft
• up to 13 short range aircraft based in Yunnan or Shan State
• 5 bombers based in FIC

You should have more than or about an equal number of planes as India has infantry. (Plus an additional ~20 ground units)

Even if you get really unlucky against AA guns, India cannot defend against this sort of attack without assistance from the European board.

Your total investment is:

J1 - 25
J2 - 12
J3 - 36
J4 - 0

This should give you roughly 120 to spend on other areas of the board as you see fit. If it is all navy you can delay the US from making significant progress while you wait for your navy to return.

J4 is a logical timing because it follows your 3 starting transports:
J1 you attack borneo and the phillipines
J2 you attack the DEI
J3 you attack Malaya
J4 you attack India

It is a very natural expansion.

So as far as what to buy J3 and J4 while your pieces on the board carry out their orders I normally recommend:

• Land units on Tokyo
• Aircraft in Tokyo
• Additional Aircraft Carriers
• Destroyers to block US fleet movement
• Naval Base in Hainan
• Transports to keep the empire well supplied with Infantry

Its really up to you and how the board progresses. The J4 attack is mostly comprised of starting units.

If you encounter delays due to bad luck or countries coming to the aid of India you can normally secure India J6 which is the turn the Infantry in Manchuria can arrive by marching.

The general consensus seems to be that when you are attempting to protect your transports carriers fighters and destroyers give the best returns for the income invested.

However in a large scale naval battle requiring full movement the attacking player is at a disadvantage because their carriers cannot take hits without sacrificing the planes they carry. Meanwhile the defender can assign hits to their carriers the same way they would with battleships and have their planes land in adjacent friendly islands.

So, when you need something to turn the tables in the Pacific and break the defensive arms race what is the most cost effective purchase?

I would argue submarines but I’m interested to know what you think.

Submarine - This is the best purchase. Because you need to spare your carriers you need units that can absorb casualties. Submarines are the cheapest naval units you can field and they have the same combat score as destroyers. They force the other player to buy destroyers to defend their fleet and they lose economically paying 8 for a 2 when you only pay 6.

Strategic bombers are consistent in damage, but do they out damage 2 submarines?

@simon33:

This is a pretty interesting idea. The bomber(s) could SBR FIC so Japan would need to station 2 fighters there.

It would work even better in Balanced Mod where the bombers would require the Japanese to stay together to prevent guerilla fighters being spawned all the time.

They could also bomb Stalingrad if that is in German hands.

I guess the main question is what do you do if it becomes clear Calcutta will fall regardless of the bombers?

If Calcutta will still fall then you can fly to either Queensland or Moscow or Egypt. India is the center of the board so you can really go wherever you’re needed from there.

This plan that I am suggesting is an allied response to a J1 declaration of war with Japan pursuing an India capture around J4-J6.

An issue I’m having in my games recently is that India is captured by Japan before the US can get significantly involved. This makes operations around Australia and Hawaii precarious because one slip and the axis win in the Pacific. Bombers have the greatest range and if you build 3-4 on US turn 1 they can arrive in Queensland US2 and then proceed to India on US3.

The bombers can threaten Japanese transports around the DEI on US3 while still arriving in India before J4. They can strike factories built on the mainland too if the attack is delayed. 5 bombers can also reasonably strike smaller Japanese positions buying more time for China and India, both of which seem to struggle to find opportunities to counterattack. In the same way that a stack of US bombers can limit the effectiveness of Sea Lion, I would suggest that the same amount can do work in the Pacific.

The bombers can provide enough units that would hinder the Japanese assault, but ultimately you would want to prevent it entirely. This plan requires very little commitment from the US player because it is all from starting units and turn 1 purchases. Against SBR and convoy raids, UK Pacific is going to lose attrition battles because it can’t muster the piece count necessary to win against a massive assault. The US cannot feasibly transport land units into this area due to existing Japanese airpower, but what it can do is safely funnel in units that can take hits while being moderately useful before the assault. If you were to hypothetically continue to build bombers on turn 2 then you could have 11 US bombers in Calcutta on J5, potentially fighters at that point too.

If the axis are rushing towards victory with a very formulaic assault than getting more units to those crucial battles seems like a good plan.

What do you think? I don’t think there is a big cost to this maneuver for the US and its ability to get involved in other areas of the board. These bombers in India can even reach Moscow if you feel they are needed somewhere else. The other allies seem to fall too quickly to all in attacks from the axis. Maybe the US should go all in on getting any kind of support directly to those areas.

@aequitas:

@simon33:

Wouldn’t the Luftwaffe smash your fleet? Or is your plan to use the Rome airbase to defend the fleet?

Two things i am assuming here:

� turn 4 the Luftwaffe is split.  Some are in Russia, some are either in Germany or Italy.
The German player may assume no bigger threat since the US build is lightly.

� UK needs to make effort to ensure a proper Invasion and Protection.

@SS:

@aequitas:

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

I am afraid it is not working

Too much German air ?

Cow’s steps aren’t supposed to be literally translated into turns. If you are trying out the idea you should use them as more of a guiding principle. First, you need transports to invade and naval to protect those transports. You need bombers to attack the factories in Italy that way once the Italians see you coming for them they cannot build defenses in time. You then need additional naval and bombers to either damage more factories, clear naval blockers, or protect yourself against enemy aircraft. Once these conditions have been met you can land in Rome relatively safe from Axis counterattack.

I think it would be a worthwhile idea during your bomber operations to strike at the factory in Western Germany. To support this I think a small landing in Sicily is also a good idea as a location for your bombers to threaten Axis industries.

You can also choke Italy’s income with submarines which the UK should be able to build 3 of over the course of the game without sacrificing too much. Furthermore, The US should be able to maintain a steady deployment of forces to Honolulu without compromising purchases in the Atlantic.

@AxisAndAllies1940:

Let’s say you’re Russia, facing the first turn of a major Barbarossa- including an Italian force to hit Bryansk. You need to keep those 20 pieces in the East to pressure Japan (even if only a little bit). What do you buy? Where’s the fine line between fortifying Moscow and buying time? I would assume it’s important to fortify Archangel for the UK fighter inflow, so I would probably stack Leningrad. Obviously, Moscow will need reinforcing. Other than that though, I’m not sure what you should build.

If Germany attacks Russia on the first turn than you need to get units to the frontline immediately. Mechanized infantry would be suitable here being able to be produced in Moscow and reach either the North or the South. You also need your own air support. Against an opponent with more airpower, more mechanized infantry, more tanks, and more income the last thing you want to do is get into an enormous dice rolling battle at your capital. If you stack Moscow well and delay a G6 attack, chances are Germany will be able to put in enough resources towards capturing your capital the following turn or the next after that. They will bomb you past your capacity to repair. You have to get aircraft because you need to kill as many German units as possible. Tanks are fantastic and should be purchased, however the best Russia games that you will have will be ones where you can kill a large stack of axis units and create a setback. If all of your powerful units are tanks and artillery they will be consumed in a counterattack. Aircraft can escape the danger zone and return to a factory in need of protection.

Mechanized infantry and aircraft can fight a defensive war on an enormous front giving you the option to not only defend your factories, but also project considerable counteroffensive pressure.

You can never buy time if you never attack. Russia has to attack Germany. You cannot win a retreating war and if you attempt to delay with blockers Italy will clean them up. You have to capture territory back from Germany without losing your ability to do it again. Try to purchase 1 aircraft every turn with Russia in your next game.

Germany has a lot of options in the early game with London, Russia, the Mediterranean, economic based strategies, bombers, and more. I might be a little narrow-minded here but all of the Japanese strategies feel like grab India and go from there. You could go after Russia and delay your Japanese attacks in the South Pacific, but it doesn’t grow your income very quickly.

Have any of you had success with alternative Japanese strategies in the same vein as German bombers or Med play? Japan has a lot of potential with all of their aircraft, but they often seem to land in the same territory. Thoughts?

@Caesar:

@KGrimB:

I know its probably not optimal, but I pretty much always build 6 inf and 1 fighter on London UK1. I always send some aircraft to the Mediterranean and with 60-70 ipcs on G2, Germany can attempt Sea Lion even if they may not have been originally considering it unless you have the defenses.

I would also agree against the factory in Egypt. It can be a little precarious early with nearby German air and I think that normally games where you have an option to build a factory in Egypt are games where the Mediterranean is already in the Allies’s favor. It doesn’t exactly create opportunities the same way a factory in Persia does. Just use transports with South Africa.

Sea Lion on G2 is foolish because ideally, Germany would need to buff its navy, build infantry, and transports so that shouldn’t be done until at least G3.

You misunderstand me. Sea Lion G3 is the most realistic because it is after you buy transports on G2, after SBR, and after T1 convoys. Germany evaluates early sea lion based on what London does turn 1.

With respect to the original question, I think a g1 Dow on Russia to bait UK into not defending for sea lion could work. However, you’re probably short 1-2 transports from strafing Yugoslavia, not hitting other parts of France, missing Russian wheat NO, and committing German aircraft to the eastern front or other riskier battles. Thus you exaggerate your existing problems because you give up all of the pros of G1 and take away units from that front just to get them stuck on an island with 1 VC instead of attacking a country with 3 VC.

It’s too much for one country. You would need to make sacrifices with Italy’s dreams in the Med. You can’t give them the help they need and they would have to spend on forces to delay Russia. They could attack London with their Bomber.

I think what would sell this plan and give Germany a better chance of baiting the UK would be a Japanese attack on Russia. If you bring America into the war you probably have no chance of winning in Europe. If you keep them out you get a better chance at London and Japan can draw some attention from Russia. Otherwise the Siberian infantry are probably garunteed arriving in Moscow and probably other Russian forces would occupy Iraq.

@Ichabod:

@KGrimB:

In your experience against the J1 DOW, do you move Chinese forces North or do you try to contest the Burma road as long as possible?

What do you do?

Normally retake Burma with existing forces and place new units in the North starting T2

@Ichabod:

I think most experienced players won’t let the US land 5 Bombers in London.

No J1 for me; most likely a J2 DOW or J3 DOW if Germany drops transports.

I don’t think J1 DOWs are as common as they used to be. Often China becomes a problem and it like you mentioned (5 US bombers), there are ways to take Sea Lion off the table.

In your experience against the J1 DOW, do you move Chinese forces North or do you try to contest the Burma road as long as possible?

I know its probably not optimal, but I pretty much always build 6 inf and 1 fighter on London UK1. I always send some aircraft to the Mediterranean and with 60-70 ipcs on G2, Germany can attempt Sea Lion even if they may not have been originally considering it unless you have the defenses.

I would also agree against the factory in Egypt. It can be a little precarious early with nearby German air and I think that normally games where you have an option to build a factory in Egypt are games where the Mediterranean is already in the Allies’s favor. It doesn’t exactly create opportunities the same way a factory in Persia does. Just use transports with South Africa.