Sounds like the Allies are doing really well. The allies need a meat grinder to wear down the axis with the allies’ numerical superiority.
The Japan Playbook
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The other 2 is probably FIC, which you’d forego on turn 1 to collect the +10 NO. Some players move the British battleship to Queensland to help defend the ANZAC/American fleet, and it can also be used along with some planes as part of a 1-2 or a 1-2-3 against portions of the Japanese fleet that split up.
Exactly.
I’d even argue that if you were hellbent on wanting to do J2, that taking FIC J1 might even be worth losing the +10 NO in some instances (effectively only a +8 NO at that point), because that territory with a naval base on it can be pivotal to control of the south pacific. But then again, I wouldn’t ever J2 in the first place unless I was gonna kill me some Ruskies.
I said the part where you don’t build minor industrial complexes is a whole other discussion. I’m bored at work, so I’ll jump into that, too:
As far as the FIC mIC, I don’t know how common that is, but I’d guess pretty damn, and I personally see it a lot. I can’t think of a game as Japan (after my first trainwreck of a try, which we all probably have :p) where I haven’t done it. Again, to be clear, it is incredibly useful. You’ll likely already have a naval base there, so any boats you build are immediately useful on the next turn to go damn near anywhere, be it Calcutta, Western Aus, the money islands, Carolines to smack Americans, up to SZ6 to drive out a convoy party, etc. Basically 1/2 of the pacific and the eastern half of the Indian. You never have to worry about it being destroyed, unlike a mIC in china. Chances are you also have an airbase on Kwangsi, meaning any planes on that can scramble to protect any naval buys.
If you only have your Japan factory, and the Americans do come over and start the convoy party, you can’t build navy off of Japan before your next turn (when you’re likely swinging your fleet back around and getting everything in position to kill the convoy fleet). But with a factory in FIC you can pump out a very cost-effective three submarines to have on the subsequent round(s) of smashing.
If you only have your Japanese factory, a transport has to go a long damn way to pick up some replacement units. If they can stop to pick up a new unit or two in FIC, you’ve saved yourself two entire turns of that transport going up then coming back down. Two turns in A&A is enough for your entire campaign to crumble or come into fruition. Having your transports, that you can’t afford to replace, disappear for two turns instead of threatening ANZAC (again, so it must build land units), or Calcutta, or there to pick up some cash islands is a huge detriment to the glorious cause of the IJN. Taking land units out of China to do it harms your efforts there.
I always build a mIC in FIC, and by J4 I often have one or two more on mainland Asia, depending on what all has happened. If America has twiddled too much in the Atlantic, then it’s very often four factories, and a Pacific win is nearly unavoidable.
Eventually, the US is going to come over and break your boats. You can’t help that. Either he’s going to make you attack him or he’s going to crash into you. If you still have some capital ships, your navy is still vulnerable and anemic for a turn or two. Or, worse yet, you’ve got nothing. Having the ability to immediately splash down some more boats in the South Pacific can get you back up to running speed much more quickly. If the US does win, and is parked on SZ6, without Japanese mIC elsewhere… game over man: You Lose. Having the mIC on the mainland means that you can, always, definitively, kill china. It also allows you to send (fast) units across china and into Russia. If the Americans do make a suicide dash into China to liberate some things (more effective than you might think), then the factories let you contain the issue before it gets too far out of hand, while not requiring your transports stop threatening (or killing) Calcutta or ANZAC.
List of territories, in order of likelihood, that I place a mIC in:
1: FIC. Always. J2. See above.
2: A mIC in Kwangtung is good for keeping a lock on China, and, like FIC, will have a (free) naval base on it. Can reach sz6 (two routes, making destroyer blocks a bit more difficult) as well as all of the money islands, and the Carolines, but only the Northern Territory of AUS. Depending, either J2 or J3, rarely J4.
2: Malaya! Just as close to Calcutta, land-wise, as FIC. With both you likely don’t need transports to go west any longer, and can slowly prep for the slow burn on Calcutta or to restock for a hit on ANZAC. Or, with both mIC and transports, Calcutta cannot stand, no matter what they do. Very close to money islands, and once again, the UK was nice enough to plant a naval base here for you already. Those guys are swell. Can’t reach SZ6, but it does reach 4/5 sea zones around Australia, and at times it being able to reach West India can be nice. J3 or J4.
The above two tie for the second one that I build, and it’s sometimes both, depending on what’s going on in the game.
4: A mIC in Korea, or actually better Manchuria unless you’re worried about it getting burned down by snarky americans liberating it, can be useful for activating Mongolia for the Russians and then killing them all and taking all of the far east territories from Russia. Depending on when this is done, this is of huge benefit to Germany. While the far east isn’t as good of a time/money investment vs. reward as other pursuits can be for Japan, it is not too awful, and helps out the European theater a good little bit. Think good and hard about this to make sure it’s not likely to be threatened in the next 2-3 turns, however, since if you ever lose it, the Manchurian factory is gone forever (though maybe it was still worth it anyway!), or you just built a factory for the Americans in Korea. Manchuria can also build in SZ19, which can be useful if SZ6 is, or will soon be, hot.
5: Shangtung/Kiangsu I almost never do, but I have seen it done. There are edge cases where building destroyers to block destroyer blocks can work out, and early game mICs here can be used to push into Russia/Mongolia very hard (IE: in the “strategy” where you chase down and kill those 18 Russians even if they do try to run back to Moscow).
If you’re ever in a position to build another mIC in another place, like Western India or Queensland, the game is too far advanced to be able to talk about much, and you’re likely winning (or are losing and are very desperate) anyway.
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Wild Bill, I thought I’d let you know that I was inspired by this, and decided to try it out. Still waiting on the US response, but I’m pretty happy with how it’s going so far. The only big difference between this attack and the usual Cow J1 is that in my case, I chose to leave Hunan alone. Didn’t want to risk losing planes over a pointless fight.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36392.new#new
@WILD:
Cow I was wondering why you don’t also take out the US Hawaii fleet in your J1 attack (sz26 sub, destroyer, cruiser transport). If you use the sz6 transport to take Wake Is it allows you to park your 2 sz6 carriers and battleship there to pick up surviving planes (or to fly new planes out from Japan if you lose one). Attacking sz26 with 4 air units, and sub/dd’s (maybe a cruiser) should be minimum risk, and leave you a blocker in sz26 so the San Fran fleet can’t hit you at Wake (must have dd left to block even at expense of air). On US turn if he does do a suicide flyby on your Wake fleet you can take the first 3 hits on the BB and carriers and land the planes on Wake.
You still have plenty of ships to take out the Phil navy, and using sz33 carrier/planes and your other 2 transports take the Phil Island. Killing off 5 US support ships sets them back, and will give you some breathing room.
On J2 I prob buy an IC for FIC, and take Malaya using the transports that took Phil Is (Anz NO). Then NCM Wake fleet to Carolies and bring my 3 new transports from Japan (loaded) to Phil to go for the money islands J3. At the start of J3 I had 1 transport at Caroline, 2 transports at Malaya, and 3 transports at Phil. You have a couple options at this point, the smart conservative way to use 4 transports to take all the DEI, and maybe Burma if its safe (pushing towards India). Option 2 is you also have 6 loaded transports in range that could hit Queensland and the fleet and air to back it up depending on what the US has done which puts some pressure on Anz (maybe they buy ground instead of navy?)
Anyway just wondered if you sometimes change things up a bit and smack the Pearl fleet?
Sorry if this was addressed already, didn’t re-read the thread WB
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The one issue with a Malaya IC is that the Allies can hit it from the Queensland sea zone, and since I usually have my fleet in the Philippines, I don’t want to move it to 37 to stop the Allies from liberating Malaya.
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The one issue with a Malaya IC is that the Allies can hit it from the Queensland sea zone, and since I usually have my fleet in the Philippines, I don’t want to move it to 37 to stop the Allies from liberating Malaya.
This is definitely a detriment, and at best, an annoyance you must look out for. That, along with its ability to hit the Carolines, is why I usually do Kwangtung a little bit more often.
This risk can, however, be somewhat mitigated by keeping ANZAC scared, so they don’t buy many boats. And you can also buy mostly land units there, which means they have to kill 3 units to take it, and even if they do, the units you bought the round before are likely able to turn around and take it back from them.
If the US comes to sit on Queensland, you’ll have an entire turn to figure out what to do, and that thing to do might even be to go down to Queensland and murder everything there.
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I don’t always bump myself, but when I do it is after a year. :)
Edit: I am glad to see the Pacific half of the board being more prominent in games, on par or slightly less than Europe instead of ignored. The bid for the allies has increased and settled to what it is now. It is good stuff.
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This thread revolutionized Axis strategies which shifted the balance from the Allies to the Axis with an average bid of 20 IPCs to take the Allies… Therefore I have stickied this thread.
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Have you played balanced Mod, Cow?
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Sure have. I am still a proud axis player and a proud Trump supporter.
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@Cow:
Sure have. I am still a proud axis player and a proud Trump supporter.
Make America great again.
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this is helpfull
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I would love to see this strategy updated for the BM 2.0 ruleset. With the Allies often going Atlantic-heavy to start with, how does this change the opening J1 gambit, or even J2?
I’ve had varying degrees of success as Japan in BM 2.0, and I’m still developing solid strategies that take advantage of US “pivots to the West.”
Anyone else?
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So has it been determined whether J1 DOW or J2 DOW is better? I’ve seen a lot of stuff for a good J1 DOW, but very little for how to set up for a J2 DOW.
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Ah you mean that playbook where you do not leave a Battleship or even 1 extra plane in Japan so that you can drive all over Australia and India every 8 games but ragequit ever 2 games? Cute.
(And that’s a ragequit where he didn’t lose a single sub south of the UK vs an Allied 13 bid, roflmao!)
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Cow, I have used some of your Japan strategies in my latest game and won after knocking out India, Australia and China in succession, then rolling up Russia from the east bailing out the Euro-Axis who were feeling pressure from Anglo-US forces stacked in France (though Italy did control the Middle East and most of Africa). Thank you for making the Axis powers great again!
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Ondis were you the guy that attacked japan seazone where I scrambled and used all my kamiz and missed? It is a dice game, anything can happen. It is not ragequit if you won it.
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You really have to worry about China. I mean that they can build a lot of infantry, and seriously hamper plans. I would try to kill china fully by J5-6 just to get that of your plate. Japan has so many countries to worry about, and they can all hurt Japan. You need to try to watch ANZAC and US, they will KILL you later. Take China, and aim for these VCs. Tokyo, Shanghi, Hong Kong, Manilia, Honolulu, and your choice of New South Wales, or Calcutta.
Trust me, it works. -
Production: 2x transports, 1x minor industrial complex (factory for Kiangsu)
Declare War on US, France, British, Anzac
Combat Movement:
Chahar
- 2x Infantery (Jehol)
- 1x Artillery (Jehol)
- 1x Mechanized Infantery (Manchuria)
Anhwe
- 6x Infatery (3x Shantung, 3x Kiangsu)
- 2x Artillery (1x Shantung, 1x Kiangsu)
Hunan
- 2x Infantery (1x Kiangsi, 1x Kwangsi)
- 2x Fighters (Manchuria)
- 2x Tactical Bombers (Manchuria)
Yunnan
- 1x Infantery (Kwangsi)
- 1x Artillery (Kwangsi)
- 1x Fighter (Kiangsu)
- 1x Tactical Bomber (Kiangsu)
- 1x Strategical Bomber (Japan)
Kwangtun
- 2x Infantery (1x Kwangsi, 1x Kiangsi)
- 1x Artillery (Kiangsi)
- 3x Fighter (1x Okinawa, 2x Japan)
- 2x Tactical Bomber (Japan)
French Indo China
- 1x Infatery (Siam)
Shan Stat
- 1x Infantery (Siam)
Sea Zone 43
- 1x Transport (carrying 1x infantery)
Borneo
- 1x Infantery (Sea Zone 20 / Kiangsi)
Sea Zone 37
- 1x Cruiser (Sea Zone 20
- 1x Fighter (Formosa)
- 1x Strategical Bomber (Japan)
Sea Zone 35
- 2x Transport carrying 2x Infantery, 1x tank and 1x artillery (Sea Zon 19 / Okinawa / Manchuria, Sea Zone 6 / Japan)
- 2x Submarines (Sea Zone 19, Sea Zone 6)
- 1x Destroyer (Sea Zone 19)
- 1x Battleship (Sea Zone 19)
Philippines
- 2x Infantery (Sea Zone 19 / Okinawa, Sea Zone 6 / Japan)
- 1x Artillery (Sea Zone 19 / Manchuria)
- 1x Tank (Sea Zone 6 / Japan)
Sea Zone 62
- 1x Destroyer (Sea Zone 33)
- 1x Fighter (Sea Zone 33)
- 1x Tactical Bomber (Sea Zone 33)
Sea Zone 26
- 2x Fighters (Sea Zone 6)
- 2x Tactical Bombers (Sea Zone 6)
- 1x Battleship (Sea Zone 6)
- 1x Cruiser (Sea Zone 6)
- 1x Destroyer (Sea Zone 6)
==========================================================================================================
Non Combat Movement:
Sea Zone 26
-2x Aircraft Carriers (Sea Zone 6)
-1x Destroyer (Sea Zone 6)Sea Zone 62
- 1x Aircraft Carrier (Sea Zone 33)
Siam
- 1x Fighter (Sea Zone 37)
Kwangsi
- 2x Strategical Bombers (1x Sea Zone 37, 1x Yunnan)
- 5x Fighters (3x Kwangtung, 2x Hunan)
- 4x Tactical Bombers (2x Kwangtung, 2x Hunan)
Japan
- 1x Fighter (Korea)
==========================================================================================================
Place:
Kiangsu
- 1x minor industiral complex (factory)
Sea Zone 6
- 2x transports
==========================================================================================================
New IPC Income:
26 Start Income
- 16 conquered territories
= Total 42
Next seocond round:
Get “the money islands” (Sumatra, Java, Celebes).
Use submarines for convoy and strategical bombardements against the british.
Push against China, defend the fleet for the american and anzac.–----------------
Hope, you enjoy.
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I still prefer the 3 transport buy, opens up J3 takedown of India as an option.
Kiangsu move 1 inf down down to kiangsi (phil you probably lose 2 inf on J1 so this allows you to pick up and drop malaya from phil with 2 guys).
Kwangsi I always adored 3 inf 1 arty 1 fight 1 tactical, low luck I sometimes do 2 inf 1 arty 1 fight 1 tact. I don’t like to go light on the battleship in sz37, I use cruiser fighter 2 bomber.
Bombers are bombers. Tactical fighters are tactical fighters. :P Not m fault LH had bad luck when it came to naming. I don’t see how tacticals are more like bombers than they are like fighters, only fighters land on carriers in this game, move 4, attack 3 (except when paired with tank or fighter), and yeah they can’t bomb ICs so they are not real bombers.
If you do the attack in sz62, use a destroyer only, it is better than having to put a carrier someplace silly.
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I just uploaded a video about the J1 attack, hopefully it proves useful for those interested in this strategy…
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