Japan/USSR Non-Aggression Pact



  • russia cant attack japan before berlin falls,this is historic
    japan cant attack russia till it holds all of china



  • I think ozeta has posted the best solution for this sticky situation I have ever seen. Unfortunatly it is near impossible of a board game to model the massive size of the Soviet Union, or the fact that Japanese logistics wouldnt have been able to support a thrust much past irtkurst.
    I think Stalin would have pulled those siberian troops even once Moscow was threatened, without a doubt. However, this dosnt mean that the Soviets Far east was undefneded. The Local commander, Gen.Apanisenko, managed to build a force of nearly 1 million men AFTER, the siberian reserves had been sent west.
    I think the forces we see in the far east in the begining of the game more closely represent these troops rather then those of the Siberian eliets that counter-attacked in front of Moscow in the winter of 41-42. The troops that were pulled out had atry support and tank batalions with them, so they had real offensive power.



  • @Fishmoto37:

    From ILs 1939 game rules.    NON-AGGRESSION PACT: The Soviet Union and Japan have a special treaty in place. The Soviet player can never attack Japanese territories until Berlin falls. The Japanese player can attack the Soviets as early as turn 4.

    So Russia can’t attack back? That is retarded.



  • I think IL meant originally Japanese territories untill turn 4.

    However it should read

    The USSR may not attack original Japanese Territory, or attempt to liberate occupied Chinese territory untill after its fourth turn



  • @oztea:

    I think IL meant originally Japanese territories untill turn 4.

    However it should read

    The USSR may not attack original Japanese Territory, or attempt to liberate occupied Chinese territory untill after its fourth turn

    It should also read unless they are attacked still. USSR should be allowed to do more then just reclaim its territory. IMO its a stupid rule.



  • most Canadiens I know would GLADLY let Quebec fall to protect any other provence.  :roll:



  • Why not simply add Japan to Italy and Germany in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

    Russia is unable to declare war on Japan until turn 4 unless war has been declared on it by an Axis power. Japan may declare war on Russia whenever it likes but Russia may then go to war against the entire Axis, causing Germany to lose its 5 ipc bonus on the next turn.



  • @larrymarx:

    Why not simply add Japan to Italy and Germany in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

    Russia is unable to declare war on Japan until turn 4 unless war has been declared on it by an Axis power. Japan may declare war on Russia whenever it likes but Russia may then go to war against the entire Axis, causing Germany to lose its 5 ipc bonus on the next turn.

    Well, cause that didn’t happen.

    However, Russia and Japan did have sign a ceasefire agreement after Khalkhin Gol that eventually led to the pact in 41.  It doesn’t exactly follow that Russia is so free to attack Japan as historically it wasn’t in their best interest to do so, and it was Japan that was expansionist in East Asia; not nearly the case with Russia.  I’d prefer a solution were russia is required abide the cease fire regardless of war in europe , but allow Japan to break it whenever they please (which still doesn’t cause war with the other axis powers).  Russia just has to make sure it will be costly for Japan, which is precisely what they did with the far east forces.



  • @kcdzim:

    I’d prefer a solution were russia is required abide the cease fire regardless of war in europe , but allow Japan to break it whenever they please (which still doesn’t cause war with the other axis powers).  Russia just has to make sure it will be costly for Japan, which is precisely what they did with the far east forces.

    How about doing this but also allowing Russia to break the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact if Japan chooses to attack early?



  • i would prefer a garrison requirement as was the case in A World at War but honestly any rule would be better then the current nothing



  • @larrymarx:

    @kcdzim:

    I’d prefer a solution were russia is required abide the cease fire regardless of war in europe , but allow Japan to break it whenever they please (which still doesn’t cause war with the other axis powers).  Russia just has to make sure it will be costly for Japan, which is precisely what they did with the far east forces.

    How about doing this but also allowing Russia to break the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact if Japan chooses to attack early?

    The game already favors the allies.  Allowing Russia to preemptively strike isn’t helpful for balance on the Europe side.  However, barring russia from attacking japan first, under any circumstance, probably means Japan won’t bother with russia at all with no need to garrison and will focus on china first, while positioning for the J3 assault which matches far more closely the way AAP40 plays (where russia isn’t available to attack, and won’t attack Japan).

    the 18 infantry already is pretty good about giving Japan pause on J1.  J2, it becomes more feasable, but even then Russia can back away and just leave the shorelines open, giving up minimal value.  I just don’t buy that Russia needs more freedom to attack.  While Stalin was of the mind of striking when either axis was vulnerable, the player is NOT the Stalin, and some safeguards like restricted declarations have to be in place so that the game can be balanced.  Otherwise it’s not 1940, it’s 1942.

    In my perfect world:

    A) Russia cannot attack or enter ORIGINAL UK or US territories ever.  Russia just shouldn’t be in India.  or the UK.  They can take Persia, they can take neutrals, and they can conquer ORIGINAL axis territories to their hearts content.  And even though it’s unlikely, they can help in France.  Frankly, if Russia is in position to take a european french territory, the game is either over, or has gone pearshaped, but this way they can get a token Syria.

    B)UK & US units cannot enter ORIGINAL Russian territories ever.  If they do, they are removed (thus cannot defend), a marker takes their place, and Russia has the option to purchase that equiv unit during their purchase phase at half price rounded up (this is lend lease/pilot internment).

    C) Russia can attack & control any neutral it pleases at start of game.  No neutral is friendly to Russia - they will all be combat moves, and they will always defend, even if Pro Ally.  Unless strict neutrals are changed to affect regions (unlikely), same rules as OOB for strict neutrals.

    D) Russia cannot attack Japan until Berlin falls or Japan declares war on them.  They cannot enter China until at war with Japan (historically, they were still aiding china after the Cease fire in '39, but stopped after the Pact in 41.  However, since the Tigers weren’t in China until 41 (essentially taking over for the russian air group), the single fighter can be abstracted to be considered the Russian air group at the beginning of the game

    E) OOB political rules for Italy/Germany.


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