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    When playing Japan, one must plan a strategy before hand (at least for the first 4 rounds). What is the best early campaign strategy for Japan? (2 votes per member).


  • Annihiliate*

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    @Zallomallo:

    Annihiliate*

    Thanks, that was a tough one.


  • Basically it comes down to one of two options:

    Eliminate one of the powers in the Pacific
    -or-
    “Ignore” your map and assist Germany against Moscow

    Thoughts on those two statements:

    Anzac is the least valuable of the powers to eliminate.  It is also the furthest away and exposes your capital the most to the other powers.

    You can’t eliminate the US without removing Washington.  Its pretty unrealistic and by the 4th turn the US economy will push you right out of the US if you manage a foothold if you haven’t gotten them into the war earlier.

    China can be “eliminated” but can also be “ignored”.  This is an important consideration because China can never threaten your capital.

    UK Pacific is the real Gem of the Pacific for Japan.  It gives Japan nearly exclusive control of the DEI, the NO bonus from it plus controlling all of the UK’s provinces that really won’t be lost to Anzac or the US until VERY LATE.  Its a solid 30+ IPC that Japan can maintain for a long time.  Conversely, its also a difficult objective to take and is very obviously seen by the opposing player from the get-go.

    The last choice is to ignore most of the Pacific Map and drive straight for Moscow to assist a German push.  However, this play is a multiple turn play, and isn’t an early Japan play although it is required to be started early.  I’m guessing Japan’s forces won’t threaten Moscow in force until turn 7ish.  Thats a solid 3 plays by the US with full industry running.  Can a Japanese fleet withstand potentially 2 assaults on Tokyo from the US and probably at least 1 each from UK Pacific and Anzac?  Good question.

    My biggest complaint still lies in the lack of utility of major islands that were significant in history (Midway, Wake, Guam, Iwo Jima for example).  There are NO’s for controlling all of them for Japan, but the realistic chance of obtaining that NO is far from relevant.  Further, the US can basically ignore most of the islands because Tokyo is a single turn move from Hawaii leaving the only real purpose of the spaces in the pacific as blocking spaces that only delays the US by a turn or two at best and requires the sacrifice of ships to manage it at all.  The advantages of holding the islands at all is minimal outside of SBR runs from Guam and the Philippines for UK/Anzac to threaten Tokyo.  The Caroline Islands just buy Japan time by holding it and honestly it feels like it lures Japan into a non-aggressive position of indecision.


  • The best Japanese strategy is to play for the fast win. Not only do you occupy US attention, you may be able to force some desperate moves from the allies that have even less long-term benefit than your strategy has.

    Attack on J1, and move towards a Sydney invasion J3. If you succeed, you’re one VC away from victory, and Calcutta won’t last long with Japan’s full attention.

    Attacking Russia is smart as a pre-emptive manuever only. As things develop, defending Manchuria and Korea is a serious deviation of resources, so making the battleground Amur instead (with the added threat of leaking infantry to Siberia and SFE), is sound strategy.

    Trying to actually pressure Moscow is not part of a successful blueprint, although later on in a game it may be the way to go.

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    @Jercules:

    The best Japanese strategy is to play for the fast win. Not only do you occupy US attention, you may be able to force some desperate moves from the allies that have even less long-term benefit than your strategy has.

    Attack on J1, and move towards a Sydney invasion J3. If you succeed, you’re one VC away from victory, and Calcutta won’t last long with Japan’s full attention.

    Attacking Russia is smart as a pre-emptive manuever only. As things develop, defending Manchuria and Korea is a serious deviation of resources, so making the battleground Amur instead (with the added threat of leaking infantry to Siberia and SFE), is sound strategy.

    Trying to actually pressure Moscow is not part of a successful blueprint, although later on in a game it may be the way to go.

    Don’t you find it difficult holding Sydney during an American liberation force while you’re trying to take Calcutta secondly?


  • How in the world do you take sydney J3? That is unreal. If you attack T1 America is already in the war, and will be able to help sydney out at least a little. Honestly if Japan attacks first turn I am building 3 infantry a turn as anzac just to protect my capital and wait for america to come until I build warships and planes. Later Anzac can build transports and offload those infantry built earlier.


  • @Young:

    @Jercules:

    The best Japanese strategy is to play for the fast win. Not only do you occupy US attention, you may be able to force some desperate moves from the allies that have even less long-term benefit than your strategy has.

    Attack on J1, and move towards a Sydney invasion J3. If you succeed, you’re one VC away from victory, and Calcutta won’t last long with Japan’s full attention.

    Attacking Russia is smart as a pre-emptive manuever only. As things develop, defending Manchuria and Korea is a serious deviation of resources, so making the battleground Amur instead (with the added threat of leaking infantry to Siberia and SFE), is sound strategy.

    Trying to actually pressure Moscow is not part of a successful blueprint, although later on in a game it may be the way to go.

    Don’t you find it difficult holding Sydney during an American liberation force while you’re trying to take Calcutta secondly?

    At the start of the game, Japan has 177 naval IPCs vs. 110 for the US (ignoring the Atlantic), plus another 63 in ‘naval air’ vs. 21 (ie. what’s on the ac’s).

    So Japan has 240 IPCs vs. America’s 173, plus, with the J1 I advocate, they gain another 21 in transports and sink 14 worth of US ships (in sz35).

    Now US1 rolls around, and they’re basically at a 101 IPC deficit. They can close the gap, but only with carrier buys–3 ac’s is +48, and +40 with the fighters that can now add to the Navy. Good for them, they’re basically even now, but a large chunk of that is off the West Coast and their 2 transports in Hawaii carry 3 men and an arty–not exactly a liberation force.

    So by US2 a navy equal-or-slightly-superior-to the Japanese sits by Hawaii. It will be US3, at best, that the Hawaiian navy is A) clearly superior, and B) stocked with enough transports to have a shot at liberating Sydney.

    In the meantime, Japan has taken Sydney J3 and can easily block the US until US5, where they are forced to move significant Navy South with all their transports and must still leave enough near Hawaii to deal with a Japanese Navy that has just received a 60+ IPC boost.


  • @theROCmonster:

    How in the world do you take sydney J3? That is unreal. If you attack T1 America is already in the war, and will be able to help sydney out at least a little. Honestly if Japan attacks first turn I am building 3 infantry a turn as anzac just to protect my capital and wait for america to come until I build warships and planes. Later Anzac can build transports and offload those infantry built earlier.

    I know Grasshopper does not play online–do you?

    Before this night is through I’ll have a post inviting anyone to take the allies against my axis (G1 will be completed up to allied scramble decisions). The J1 attack I’m talking about will likely follow.


  • J1 Buy 3 Trn, 1 Art
    Move SZ6 fleet to Carolines (Leave the Trn)
    Standard China moves
    Recall SZ20 to SZ6
    Recall SZ16 to SZ6
    Spread Destroyers (3 of them) to SZ’s as blockers (SZ16 at a minimum, maybe SZ’s 18 and 19 as well and use Kamakazee’s to try to take out any ships that move in to remove ships)
    Transfer StratB’s to Carolines
    Transfer Artillery, 3 Inf from Manchuria to Korea

    J2 Buy: 2 Trn, AC, Destroyer
    J2 Standard China moves
    J2 move full fleet from SZ6 to Carolines - Trns bring 12 total units: 7 inf, 4 art, 1 Tank

    J3 Declare war on Anzac
    J3 Invade SZ62 with full complement of Caroline Fleet

    Basically it looks like this for J3 SZ62:
    3 Fighter, 3 TacB
    2 Subs
    2 Cruisers
    2 BB

    Even with an Anzac scramble of 3 fighters and an Anzac2 purchase of a BB its 100% odds Japan cleans the house and thats basically worst case scenario for Japan.

    If Anzac goes A1 and A2 infantry thats 6 more than what it already has bringing it up to 10 Inf, 1 Art on the capital could be 1 more if Anzac clears out NZ.  I’ve watched Anzac wait until Anzac2 to buy a BB or AC, this is advantageous because it shorts itself 3 Inf to defend an invasion.  So you can see anywhere from 7 Inf, 8 Inf, 10 Inf or 11 Inf + 1 Art.  It will also have 3 fighters that it either chooses to suicide against the invasion fleet (misplay) or hold for the J4 invasion.  Regardless how Anzac plays it, Japan wins Sydney on J4.  J3 is only realistic if Anzac bought that BB on Anzac2 and chooses to suicide its fighters in the sea battle or flew them over to Malaya to help with the push from Japan against Calcutta.  Its particularly nice if the A2 purchase was an AC and they land 2 fighters on it.

    I can’t see how J3 gets Sydney without an extreme novice player, but J4 is realistic and VERY possible.  Just don’t land the Amphibious on J3 with more than a single fighter flying cover over Anzac.

    Basically if you Kill Anzac First, you can have it just by purchasing 3 transports on J1.  Everything else was on the board to start.  That leaves J2, J3 purchases to deal with an inevitable move by the US/UK against Japan and Japan already has blockers in play.  The advantage is Japan gets whatever Anzac2 collected, plus 5 for a NO and 2 for taking the territory.  All said, for little investment (really just 3 trn) Japan can net itself 8 IPCs from territories, 5 IPC’s from a NO and whatever Anzac had by J3/J4.  A constant 12 IPC and staging to take the DEI on J4/J5 is really interesting.

    I think the biggest draw to this is that the US has to now defend Hawaii while preparing a liberation force for Anzac.  The US splitting itself 3 ways now (Atlantic, Hawaii, South Pacific) is advantageous for Japan considering its loss of the fleet is insignificant in comparison to trying to take Hawaii or get mudded up chasing Calcutta.


  • I looked into it, you can get Sydney by just purchasing 3 Trn on J1.  However unless Anzac plays terribly newbish I can’t see Sydney falling to Japan on J3.  More likely J4.

    What exactly is your invasion force on Sydney.  Assuming 3 Trn 1 Art on J1 you have access to 4 Art, 1 Tank and lots of inf to load up on 6 total Trn.  Do you snag some Art from the mainland on J1 moving the Trn to SZ6 to stage at Caroline on J2? to even it out at 6 inf, 6 art?  That force doesn’t take out possibly 7 Inf, 1 Art and 3 Ftr in a “good” scenario for Japan where Anzac didn’t think defensively until Anzac2 with a big fleet staged on Carolines.


  • @Spendo02:

    I looked into it, you can get Sydney by just purchasing 3 Trn on J1.  However unless Anzac plays terribly newbish I can’t see Sydney falling to Japan on J3.  More likely J4.

    What exactly is your invasion force on Sydney.  Assuming 3 Trn 1 Art on J1 you have access to 4 Art, 1 Tank and lots of inf to load up on 6 total Trn.  Do you snag some Art from the mainland on J1 moving the Trn to SZ6 to stage at Caroline on J2? to even it out at 6 inf, 6 art?  That force doesn’t take out possibly 7 Inf, 1 Art and 3 Ftr in a “good” scenario for Japan where Anzac didn’t think defensively until Anzac2 with a big fleet staged on Carolines.

    You’re forgetting 3 f., 3 tac. (from the carriers) as well as shore bombardments.

    I’m not sure yet if this is completely unstoppable, but to stop it the Allies have to do a lot of things they don’t want to do.


  • The allies In that situation would have 4 inf 1 art 3 fighters 2 aa guns to start the game with. When you attack the allies T1 my anzac reply is always going to be 2 inf 1 art. I have to. There is nothing I can do with transports or warships. plus I have to think the worst and play for the worst case sceneria. So on Japan T3 My anzac would have purchased 6 ground units making the total to 8 inf, 3 art, 3 fighters and 2 aa guns. 16 units on defense. Your attack would be 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 3 fighters, 3 tacs, 2 cruiser bombarbs, and 2 battleship bombards. 16 units on attack, but 4 heavy hitters go away after the first round, and you loose 1 fighter to aa gun fire. This is best case scenario. The anzac can place their cruiser or destroyer in sea zone 62 (outside sydney) and block the bombards. So in reality 11 attacking units Vs. 16 defending units on Japan T3. On turn 4 it can be 6 more ground and possibly 15 more planes.


  • @theROCmonster:

    The allies In that situation would have 4 inf 1 art 3 fighters 2 aa guns to start the game with. When you attack the allies T1 my anzac reply is always going to be 2 inf 1 art. I have to. There is nothing I can do with transports or warships. plus I have to think the worst and play for the worst case sceneria. So on Japan T3 My anzac would have purchased 6 ground units making the total to 8 inf, 3 art, 3 fighters and 2 aa guns. 16 units on defense. Your attack would be 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 3 fighters, 3 tacs, 2 cruiser bombarbs, and 2 battleship bombards. 16 units on attack, but 4 heavy hitters go away after the first round, and you loose 1 fighter to aa gun fire. This is best case scenario. The anzac can place their cruiser or destroyer in sea zone 62 (outside sydney) and block the bombards. So in reality 11 attacking units Vs. 16 defending units on Japan T3. On turn 4 it can be 6 more ground and possibly 15 more planes.

    You forgot the clever deduction of the poster above–Japan builds 3 transports J1.

    Also, they NC enough to the Carolines to reach any ANZAC seacraft next turn–‘blocking’ any opportunity to ‘block’ sb’s.

    The maximum possible ANZAC defense J3 is 8 inf., 2 art., 2 tanks, 2 aa’s and 3 planes (and that’s assuming the ANZAC transport does nothing but bring the NZ guy to Sydney… which is also assuming that transport is alive to see A1).

    Japan’s maximum J3 attack is 6 inf., 5 art., 1 tank, 3 f., 3 tac., 2 bombers, 4 sb’s (2 cruiser, 2 BB).

    It’s a little more complicated than that, but I’m starting to doubt my own qualifier from before: This may be unstoppable!


  • I counted the spaces from the AC’s staged in the Carolines to Sydney and I think its 5 spaces.  4 gets you to Sydney, but there is no where to land.  You’d have to stage the AC’s in at least SZ46 off New Guinea on J2.

    I almost always see Anzac1 take DNG for the NO because the 10 IPC’s a round from NO’s is much more valuable than the Trn you may lose.  Anzac1 ending the turn with 20 IPC’s provides for an Anzac2 of a BB or AC for those fighters you may or may not want to rusty away on the capital.

    If you declare war on the US on round 1 you lose the 10 IPC NO for Japan for the sake of 2 IPC from the Philippines and expose yourself to the Hawaii fleets nipping at the J2 move of heavily laden trans to Carolines.  Better to take the 20 IPCs for J1 and J2, declare war J3 (net 16 IPC) and not have to worry about the US taking shots at your fleet in the Carolines early.  Also keeps the US industry at a minimum.

    Even if you do a J3 sea battle off Sydney and a J4 invasion, you still have J2, J3, J4 to purchase units off Japan to deal with a US counter (which you can use destroyers as a blocker to extend it to J4 before US hits Japan at the earliest).  Realistically if US3 makes its purchases, it cannot even stage those purchases on Hawaii until J4.  If Japan is sitting pretty with 34ish IPC’s on those three rounds you can field at least another carrier and 2 BB in Japan or fly in some fighters from the mainland onto 2 AC and have 3 more to scramble from the AB.

    If J4 takes Sydney, J5 puts the main fleet in the Carolines and the US has to choose between the big fleet or Japan.  Both defensive battles and more advantageous for the Japansese navy than the normal attack on Hawaii where your AC don’t get to take hits.  US goes after Japan, you take Hawaii and cut it off from re-supply and 3 space movements.  It takes heavy casualties just trying to take SZ6 and still has to deal with 6 Inf on Japan (not to mention you have up to 6 Kamikaze’s you can target the US AC’s with).  Sunk AC’s = crashed fighters even if the US prevails over 2 AC, a couple destroyers and a BB with 7 fighters flying cover.  Then J6 Japan Carolines mops up whats remaining of the fleet with no AC or fighters in SZ6 with the big fleet and holds Sydney and Hawaii.  Thats if US goes after Japan which imo is a misplay.

    US’s could take the Carolines instead of Japan as early as J3, but then you have 5 AC (3 from Sydney, 2 from Japan) with the entire fleet converging on the US fleet.  Its not pretty but the US does get to play defensive Navy which is an advantage.

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    I think this is all silliness.  Japan shouldn’t be messing with ANZAC until later in the game, AFTER taking the DEI and Calcutta.  By taking the DEI, Philippines and Kwangtung, they double their income with the DEI NO and capture 2 more VCs.  Once Japan takes Calcutta, that’s another VC, plus a capital to plunder and another NO.  Calcutta will not be easily liberated;  The Brits in Egypt will be busy with the Italians, the Russians will probably have their hands full with Germany, ANZAC is just too weak and the US is not likely to get clear over to India, at least not for several rounds.
    Also, with Calcutta comes a shiny new IC to start sending troops and tanks into China to properly deal with them.  And Japan should be making enough money to compete with USA in warships.  Then you can work your way over to take Sydney and start pushing the US Navy back toward their own west coast. 
    Just make sure you leave your capital well defended.  In a recent game, our Japan player failed to do that and lost Tokyo in ROUND 2!  After 3-4 rounds of mopping up the rest of the Japanese navy and army, Germany and Italy were doomed.  Germany even managed to take Moscow but it still didn’t matter with USA and UK throwing everything at them.  Calcutta started building tanks and rolling them through the Middle East and up into Russia.

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    I agree with knp, if Japan is able to capture Australia early in the game, they have out stretched themselves IMO. India is the greater threat with a slightly larger navy and a foot hold on the mainland (which if unchecked, could cause serious problems). If Sydney fell early, I just don’t see Japan holding it. They would need to leave any surviving land units there and spend for 3 units per turn in Austrailia. The US would surly liberate it (I would) and India, China, and Russia would all take advantage. I say sac Calcutta, claim the money islands, secure the coastal VCs, and than pounce on your choice of Sydney or Hawaii for the win.

    Also, it seems that we can stop declaring strategies that attack the US early, as smart or viable.


  • Loosing Japan on R2 is impossible isn’t it? Even if all your transports offloaded men Japan should still have 5 ground units and 3 aa guns at the minimum. How in the world is US going to take this out with just 2 infantry and 1 bombarding cruiser?


  • @Spendo02:

    I counted the spaces from the AC’s staged in the Carolines to Sydney and I think its 5 spaces.  4 gets you to Sydney, but there is no where to land.  You’d have to stage the AC’s in at least SZ46 off New Guinea on J2.

    You hit sz35 J1, and sz54 J2. If he’s been foolish enough to leave men in Queensland, you wipe them out. You also dd screen the US; they can break the screen, but they won’t be able to NC into sz54 or 62 to give you any problems.

    I almost always see Anzac1 take DNG for the NO because the 10 IPC’s a round from NO’s is much more valuable than the Trn you may lose.  Anzac1 ending the turn with 20 IPC’s provides for an Anzac2 of a BB or AC for those fighters you may or may not want to rusty away on the capital.

    You have to think short term here. Anzac is facing a J3 invasion, that gives her 2 turns to prepare. The transport is better used grabbing the NZ infantry rather than leaving him and losing another infantry to get +5 in production that will come in to play for one turn before being looted by Japan.

    If you declare war on the US on round 1 you lose the 10 IPC NO for Japan for the sake of 2 IPC from the Philippines and expose yourself to the Hawaii fleets nipping at the J2 move of heavily laden trans to Carolines.  Better to take the 20 IPCs for J1 and J2, declare war J3 (net 16 IPC) and not have to worry about the US taking shots at your fleet in the Carolines early.  Also keeps the US industry at a minimum.

    You gain 2 for PHI, 2 for FIC, 3 for Kwangtung, 4 for Borneo (potentially), and you take 7 from the US that they won’t get back anytime soon. Plus, most importantly, you gain a VC. All in all, better than a basic 10 IPCs that take nothing away from opponents. Short term thinking!

    Even if you do a J3 sea battle off Sydney and a J4 invasion, you still have J2, J3, J4 to purchase units off Japan to deal with a US counter (which you can use destroyers as a blocker to extend it to J4 before US hits Japan at the earliest).  Realistically if US3 makes its purchases, it cannot even stage those purchases on Hawaii until J4.  If Japan is sitting pretty with 34ish IPC’s on those three rounds you can field at least another carrier and 2 BB in Japan or fly in some fighters from the mainland onto 2 AC and have 3 more to scramble from the AB.

    If J4 takes Sydney, J5 puts the main fleet in the Carolines and the US has to choose between the big fleet or Japan.  Both defensive battles and more advantageous for the Japansese navy than the normal attack on Hawaii where your AC don’t get to take hits.  US goes after Japan, you take Hawaii and cut it off from re-supply and 3 space movements.  It takes heavy casualties just trying to take SZ6 and still has to deal with 6 Inf on Japan (not to mention you have up to 6 Kamikaze’s you can target the US AC’s with).  Sunk AC’s = crashed fighters even if the US prevails over 2 AC, a couple destroyers and a BB with 7 fighters flying cover.  Then J6 Japan Carolines mops up whats remaining of the fleet with no AC or fighters in SZ6 with the big fleet and holds Sydney and Hawaii.  Thats if US goes after Japan which imo is a misplay.

    US’s could take the Carolines instead of Japan as early as J3, but then you have 5 AC (3 from Sydney, 2 from Japan) with the entire fleet converging on the US fleet.  Its not pretty but the US does get to play defensive Navy which is an advantage.

    **Some interesting thoughts here. Part of the advantage of a J3 Sydney invasion is that it forces the US into the war before it is really ready (for reasons you articulate; all the IPCs in the world don’t help when your new units are several turns away from the action).

    You should have an online game with one of the vets around here. Once you’re finished, win or lose you’ll be ready to eviscerate your friends next Friday night!**

    @knp7765:

    I think this is all silliness.  Japan shouldn’t be messing with ANZAC until later in the game, AFTER taking the DEI and Calcutta.  By taking the DEI, Philippines and Kwangtung, they double their income with the DEI NO and capture 2 more VCs.  Once Japan takes Calcutta, that’s another VC, plus a capital to plunder and another NO.  Calcutta will not be easily liberated;  The Brits in Egypt will be busy with the Italians, the Russians will probably have their hands full with Germany, ANZAC is just too weak and the US is not likely to get clear over to India, at least not for several rounds.
    Also, with Calcutta comes a shiny new IC to start sending troops and tanks into China to properly deal with them.  And Japan should be making enough money to compete with USA in warships.  Then you can work your way over to take Sydney and start pushing the US Navy back toward their own west coast. 
    Just make sure you leave your capital well defended.  In a recent game, our Japan player failed to do that and lost Tokyo in ROUND 2!

    **The old J3 India Crush is still very viable, and a little more friendly to Japan’s economy than the Sydney strike. Either strategy ‘nips the Allies in the bud,’ so to speak; beat them before they have a chance to get going.

    The economic advantages for Japan of waiting until J3/J4 to attack are dwarfed by the advantages you offer the Allies in such a scenario. With the J3 crush, even if India doesn’t fall immediately, they are reduced to 5 IPCs per turn and no navy (if things are handled properly).

    No offense to your friends, but losing Japan in the early rounds is flat-out incompetent. It’s hard to imagine you learning anything from that. I urge you as well to start playing on the forums (or at least check them out), to see some of the strategies being discussed here in play. **

    @Young:

    Also, it seems that we can stop declaring strategies that attack the US early, as smart or viable.

    **If you are talking about Hawaii, you are understandably wrong, as ignoring Hawaii is common Japanese strategy (although not necessarily optimal).

    If you are talking about the Phillipines, you are criminally wrong and I beg you to download battlemap and start a game with one of the vets around here.**


  • I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…

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