An Easy Italian Fix

[calvinhobbesliker]

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1

[shintokamikaze]

wow,great idea,ill try it

[Fishmoto37]

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

Was setting up the game for the first time today and I noticed that the Italian fleet was in harms way. Your idea sounds like a brilliant suggestion. I think that we will try that on our monday session. Great!

[Real Life Rorschach]

I like this suggestion.  I tried to improve it but it makes plenty of sense because I really dont want to have Italy die without a chance.

[Fishmoto37]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1

The Royal navy will not all die on G1 unless the Germs ignore France. I set up the game today and I cannot see how the Germs cannot attack France on the first turn to get all those wonderful IPCs. There are so many units in France that Germany must go all in to try to win with as few losses as possible. That will only leave one fighter, subs and a cruiser and battleship to attack the UK navy.

[gredert]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1

Every thread you post in seems negative. Why not just once see the bright side. Guess what, the RN did squat most of the war, they lost a load of capitol ships early and were too scared to ever really deploy them, its why singapore fell, its why Dieppe failed, and the only reason Overlord worked is other navies were there to make them come out in force. They really became a convoy protection force for the most part. I realize they kept the Kriegsmarine from fighting any real fights, but to be honest how can the UK have a huge intact navy and keep the game balanced?

My suggestion is to work on it, the game is less than a week out, let people find fixes. For now, we got a big fix for balance, to the side that seems to need it from what I hear, btw. If you want a fix so bad, you find it, but do it in a way that doesnt remove germany’s navy or hide the UKs. My best idea is to allow the ships at sea to be attacked, but none that are in british coastal zones. Saves some of them, and represents the Uboats getting the ships too far from help or safety of a base.

I am so sick of comming here to read peoples ideas, see suggestions and workarounds, or have a decent conversation, and yet it seems every other thread or post is complaint with no actual suggestion to fix it, just the moaning that it exists. Should there be so many, no, but hey, lets be constructive and fix it. Again without just removing units. This political fix is perfect, just not allow UK to attack Italy before Italy makes an attack, either when france falls, or until italy makes its round 1 attack, thus telling the world they too are in for a scrap.

And if you want historical realism, have that UK carrier and planes take out the French fleet in the Med, since that is what they did.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Fishmoto37:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1

The Royal navy will not all die on G1 unless the Germs ignore France. I set up the game today and I cannot see how the Germs cannot attack France on the first turn to get all those wonderful IPCs. There are so many units in France that Germany must go all in to try to win with as few losses as possible. That will only leave one fighter, subs and a cruiser and battleship to attack the UK navy.

Germany  can take France without air units.

The RN did nothing in the war? Too scared to deploy them? They deployed a battleship to Singapore. Dieppe was never supposed to be a full scale invasion. The Kreigsmarine is stronger than the RN in the North Sea.

BTW, attacking the Italian fleet doesn’t break the game, necessarily. Germany can kill the carrier with its planes and Italy can still reach almost 30 ipc’s.

As for taking out the French fleet, the french fleet is actually bigger, but not represented due to that scuttling. What’s left is what remained Free French.

[calvinhobbesliker]

RN took out much of Germany’s navy during the Norweigan campain, it destroyed the Italian fleet at Taranto(which the attack on Italian fleet represents) and elsewhere, it protected its convoys from u-boats.

As for not coming to battle, what could it battle? Germany kept most of its ships in harbor so they could only be attacked by air.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Fishmoto37:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@plumsmugler:

I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.  Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France.  Then a light bulb turned on above my head.  I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.

The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation.  Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life.  Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans.  This completely fixes the fleet problem.  Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn.  Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.

There you go.  Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!

If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1

The Royal navy will not all die on G1 unless the Germs ignore France. I set up the game today and I cannot see how the Germs cannot attack France on the first turn to get all those wonderful IPCs. There are so many units in France that Germany must go all in to try to win with as few losses as possible. That will only leave one fighter, subs and a cruiser and battleship to attack the UK navy.

Here’s one way to kill them all:

France, defended by (French) 6 INF, ART, ARM, FTR; and (British) INF, ART, ARM
2 INF, ART, 4 MECH, Tac (West Germany)
4 INF, ART, 3 ARM (Holland)
2 ARM (Greater Southern Ger)

Yugoslavia, Pro-Allied Neutral with 5 standing infantry defending
2 INF, ARM (Slovakia)
INF, ARM (Romania)
6 INF, ART (Greater Southern Germ)
ARM (Poland)

Zone 112, CA (French) CA (British)
SS (Z124) CA, BB (Z113)

Zone 111, CA, BB
SS (Z118) BMB (Ger) FTR, Tac (West Germany)

Zone 110, DD, BB
SS (Z103) FTR, Tac (West Germany) FTR (Norway)

Zone 106, DD, TP
SS (Z117)

Zone 109, DD, TP
SS (Z108) FTR (Holland)

[MODEL]

Wow, this is a way better idea than taking away Gibraltar’s naval base…

[Napoleon]

But i do not understand, UK can attack Italy if ya want to?

I mean If Italy is neutral, Uk dont give a ****.

If Uk want to declare war, it will do it?

[Imperious Leader]

he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.

If Germany builds a CV and 2 AP, then UK MUST come back to protect or Sealion will work. Thats how you save the Italian navy.

But your right. Italy should be neutral till their own turn when in the game they would have attacked southern France on I1.

I like this idea because it allows Germany to not waste IPC on Sealion. They can build land units instead.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.

If Germany builds a CV and 2 AP, then UK MUST come back to protect or Sealion will work. Thats how you save the Italian navy.

But your right. Italy should be neutral till their own turn when in the game they would have attacked southern France on I1.

I like this idea because it allows Germany to not waste IPC on Sealion. They can build land units instead.

The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time. In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl

[Imperious Leader]

The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time.

Italy didn’t play its turn yet, so why is she at war with UK and has done nothing to provoke anybody?

It should be that on HER turn the war is started.

In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl

This is a different game, no relation and its also out of print. If something happened in Chess would it apply to checkers?

If something happened in AAE would it apply to AAE40?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time.

Italy didn’t play its turn yet, so why is she at war with UK and has done nothing to provoke anybody?

It should be that on HER turn the war is started.

In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl

This is a different game, no relation and its also out of print. If something happened in Chess would it apply to checkers?

If something happened in AAE would it apply to AAE40?

At least the attack on the Italian fleet represents a historical battle. What does the sinking of the entire north atlantic RN refer to?

France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany

[cond1024]

France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany

Well they declared war on Germany in September 1939 along with Britian after Germany invaded Poland.
So yes they did provoke Germany.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@cond1024:

France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany

Well they declared war on Germany in September 1939 along with Britian after Germany invaded Poland.
So yes they did provoke Germany.

And Italy declared war as well 7 days after the start date of the game. Since the turn length is 3 months, this is one twelfth of a turn after the start of the game, which is before Germany’s turn ends. Italy declared war as soon as Paris was evacuated, right? Italy sees Germany take Paris and immediately declares war during Germany’s turn

[Imperious Leader]

And Italy declared war as well 7 days after the start date of the game. Since the turn length is 3 months

Each game turn is 6 months long, not 3.

Italy was going to sit out the war as she did in 1914, and wanted to see a decisive result before committing. Il Duce saw that my June Hitler was doing much better and Italy wanted a place at the peace table so they attacked on their turn. It was not the case that England decided to attack Italy before Italy made up its own mind.

[mike b]

I agree with Calvinhobbesliker. The German ability to sink the entire RN is ridiculous and yet nobody complains. Italy loses 3 naval units and everybody cries havoc.  1 turn represents 3 months so 7 days w/o declaring war IS an insignificant amount of time.

[Imperious Leader]

Yea so make Italy neutral till THEY decide they want to go to war or until Paris falls.

Problem solved and Germany does not have to buy a fleet just to save the Italian navy and force UK to go back to UK to prevent this.

Anything that forces a scripted move to save a position from demise of turn 1 should not be in any design.