If the Japan isn’t aggressive enough the UK-East can send resources stalling or completely stopping that Italian advance in Africa/Middle East. If America decides to send a fleet into the med the same thing can happen. Germany, Italy and Japan need to plan together. I’ve played far too many games with a conservative Germany while playing an aggressive Japan or conservative Japan while playing aggressive Germany.
An Easy Italian Fix
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I was getting ready to play g40 with my friend for the first time yesterday and I was explaining to him how, as the UK, he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn. Knowing more about World War II than me, he said that made no sense since Italy refused to join the axis until the Germans had conquered France. Then a light bulb turned on above my head. I thought up of an incredibly easy fix for this Italian fleet problem that totally conforms to the rules of the game and is historically accurate as well.
The only thing that needs to be changed is Italy’s political situation. Instead of making their political situation the same as Germany’s you simply change it to what Mussolini’s agreement with Hitler was in real life. Italy begins the game as a neutral power and may only declare war against the allies during its combat phase the turn after France has fallen to the Germans. This completely fixes the fleet problem. Since the UK’s turn precedes the Italian turn the UK will not be able to attack Italian units on their first turn. Italy will be able to make its turn as normal and attack whatever it wants to, just as before.
There you go. Can’t wait to see this in the official errata!
If you want historical realism, find a way to save the entire RN from dying G1
The Royal navy will not all die on G1 unless the Germs ignore France. I set up the game today and I cannot see how the Germs cannot attack France on the first turn to get all those wonderful IPCs. There are so many units in France that Germany must go all in to try to win with as few losses as possible. That will only leave one fighter, subs and a cruiser and battleship to attack the UK navy.
Here’s one way to kill them all:
France, defended by (French) 6 INF, ART, ARM, FTR; and (British) INF, ART, ARM
2 INF, ART, 4 MECH, Tac (West Germany)
4 INF, ART, 3 ARM (Holland)
2 ARM (Greater Southern Ger)Yugoslavia, Pro-Allied Neutral with 5 standing infantry defending
2 INF, ARM (Slovakia)
INF, ARM (Romania)
6 INF, ART (Greater Southern Germ)
ARM (Poland)Zone 112, CA (French) CA (British)
SS (Z124) CA, BB (Z113)Zone 111, CA, BB
SS (Z118) BMB (Ger) FTR, Tac (West Germany)Zone 110, DD, BB
SS (Z103) FTR, Tac (West Germany) FTR (Norway)Zone 106, DD, TP
SS (Z117)Zone 109, DD, TP
SS (Z108) FTR (Holland) -
Wow, this is a way better idea than taking away Gibraltar’s naval base…
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But i do not understand, UK can attack Italy if ya want to?
I mean If Italy is neutral, Uk dont give a ****.
If Uk want to declare war, it will do it?
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he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.
If Germany builds a CV and 2 AP, then UK MUST come back to protect or Sealion will work. Thats how you save the Italian navy.
But your right. Italy should be neutral till their own turn when in the game they would have attacked southern France on I1.
I like this idea because it allows Germany to not waste IPC on Sealion. They can build land units instead.
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@Imperious:
he wanted to make the broken naval attack in the Mediterranean on the first turn.
If Germany builds a CV and 2 AP, then UK MUST come back to protect or Sealion will work. Thats how you save the Italian navy.
But your right. Italy should be neutral till their own turn when in the game they would have attacked southern France on I1.
I like this idea because it allows Germany to not waste IPC on Sealion. They can build land units instead.
The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time. In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl
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The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time.
Italy didn’t play its turn yet, so why is she at war with UK and has done nothing to provoke anybody?
It should be that on HER turn the war is started.
In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl
This is a different game, no relation and its also out of print. If something happened in Chess would it apply to checkers?
If something happened in AAE would it apply to AAE40?
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@Imperious:
The game starts on June 3, 1940, right after Dunkirk. Italy declared war 7 days later. Insignificant amount of time.
Italy didn’t play its turn yet, so why is she at war with UK and has done nothing to provoke anybody?
It should be that on HER turn the war is started.
In aa50-41, US starts out at war even though it’s b4 pearl
This is a different game, no relation and its also out of print. If something happened in Chess would it apply to checkers?
If something happened in AAE would it apply to AAE40?
At least the attack on the Italian fleet represents a historical battle. What does the sinking of the entire north atlantic RN refer to?
France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany
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France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany
Well they declared war on Germany in September 1939 along with Britian after Germany invaded Poland.
So yes they did provoke Germany. -
France also didn’t play its turn yet, and it didn’t do anything to provoke Germany
Well they declared war on Germany in September 1939 along with Britian after Germany invaded Poland.
So yes they did provoke Germany.And Italy declared war as well 7 days after the start date of the game. Since the turn length is 3 months, this is one twelfth of a turn after the start of the game, which is before Germany’s turn ends. Italy declared war as soon as Paris was evacuated, right? Italy sees Germany take Paris and immediately declares war during Germany’s turn
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And Italy declared war as well 7 days after the start date of the game. Since the turn length is 3 months
Each game turn is 6 months long, not 3.
Italy was going to sit out the war as she did in 1914, and wanted to see a decisive result before committing. Il Duce saw that my June Hitler was doing much better and Italy wanted a place at the peace table so they attacked on their turn. It was not the case that England decided to attack Italy before Italy made up its own mind.
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I agree with Calvinhobbesliker. The German ability to sink the entire RN is ridiculous and yet nobody complains. Italy loses 3 naval units and everybody cries havoc. 1 turn represents 3 months so 7 days w/o declaring war IS an insignificant amount of time.
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Yea so make Italy neutral till THEY decide they want to go to war or until Paris falls.
Problem solved and Germany does not have to buy a fleet just to save the Italian navy and force UK to go back to UK to prevent this.
Anything that forces a scripted move to save a position from demise of turn 1 should not be in any design.
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@Imperious:
Yea so make Italy neutral till THEY decide they want to go to war or until Paris falls.
Problem solved and Germany does not have to buy a fleet just to save the Italian navy and force UK to go back to UK to prevent this.
Anything that forces a scripted move to save a position from demise of turn 1 should not be in any design.
Just because the Italians lose their fleet doesn’t mean the axis lose.
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IL, why didnt you suggest this? Isnt Italy activated after Paris falling your rule from your 39-45 deluxe world at war game? that works real well.
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IL, why didnt you suggest this? Isnt Italy activated after Paris falling your rule from your 39-45 deluxe world at war game? that works real well.
Yes thats why i am saying the same thing here. Italy is activated into war once paris falls. That is exactly what i am saying. Calvin wants UK to be able to attack them first, but thats not how the war went.
Again Italy is only at war when she starts the war after France falls. The game turns are happening at the same time in reality even though in the game they are in sequence, so when Italy decides its time it will begin its war. UK has no say in the matter and is in no position to attack Italy just because she can.
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@Imperious:
IL, why didnt you suggest this? Isnt Italy activated after Paris falling your rule from your 39-45 deluxe world at war game? that works real well.
Yes thats why i am saying the same thing here. Italy is activated into war once paris falls. That is exactly what i am saying. Calvin wants UK to be able to attack them first, but thats not how the war went.
Again Italy is only at war when she starts the war after France falls. The game turns are happening at the same time in reality even though in the game they are in sequence, so when Italy decides its time it will begin its war. UK has no say in the matter and is in no position to attack Italy just because she can.
Well, Germany usually takes Paris G1, so Italy declares war then, right?
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Just because the Italians lose their fleet doesn’t mean the axis lose.
Agreed.
But seriously, Italy is not broken. At all. I understand that the game is only days old, and that people should nitpick it as much as possible, but I hope they understand that in Europe, there is really no right or wrong strategy. Everything has its pros and cons.
For example, a UK1 attack on the Italian fleet.
Pros: Destroys half of the Italian naval prescense, has support of the French fleet, prevents Italy from reinforcing Africa (temporarily perhaps), and from getting its NO.
Cons: The Germans can definitely strike at the Allied navy from France if it wanted to with the Luftwaffe (given it survived relatively intact in the attack on France and the British navy), sinking a CV, fighter, tac. bomber, cruiser and destroyer, giving the Italians plenty of time to re-build its fleet while the Brits have little to no naval prescense in the Med now.
HOWEVER: the other thing is the dice. THE DICE. The dice decides the battles. Strategies are one thing, but rolling the dice truly decides the fate of battles. I can list every pro and con of attacking the Italian fleet on UK1, but they can all suddenly be null and void if the dice leans towards one or the other. I’ve had an instance in my last Global game (not the incredibly slow one I’m playing online right now :roll:) where the British attackers on the Italian fleet was mortally wounded, with only a fighter surviving (where it thereafter was destroyed because it could not land anywhere). I’ve run multiple simulations after that game on a British attack on the Italian fleet, and the Italians survived relatively intact seven out of thirteen times while inflicting horrendous losses on the British.
So I don’t think we need to fix anything, at least not at the moment while everyone’s nitpicking everything. The attack on the Italian fleet is risky and can end in disaster for either side roughly equally. Why? Because of the dice.
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Great point Spacy!
The dice are the be all,end all of this game. The fate of the dice are like the unpredictability of real war. It creates the individuality of each and every game and strategy, no matter how well planned. besides who doesnt love drinking beer,rolling dice,and conquering the world on a Saturday night.
“Saturday nights allright for fightin”- Elton John :-D -
@UN:
Just because the Italians lose their fleet doesn’t mean the axis lose.
Agreed.
But seriously, Italy is not broken. At all. I understand that the game is only days old, and that people should nitpick it as much as possible, but I hope they understand that in Europe, there is really no right or wrong strategy. Everything has its pros and cons.
For example, a UK1 attack on the Italian fleet.
Pros: Destroys half of the Italian naval prescense, has support of the French fleet, prevents Italy from reinforcing Africa (temporarily perhaps), and from getting its NO.
Cons: The Germans can definitely strike at the Allied navy from France if it wanted to with the Luftwaffe (given it survived relatively intact in the attack on France and the British navy), sinking a CV, fighter, tac. bomber, cruiser and destroyer, giving the Italians plenty of time to re-build its fleet while the Brits have little to no naval prescense in the Med now.
HOWEVER: the other thing is the dice. THE DICE. The dice decides the battles. Strategies are one thing, but rolling the dice truly decides the fate of battles. I can list every pro and con of attacking the Italian fleet on UK1, but they can all suddenly be null and void if the dice leans towards one or the other. I’ve had an instance in my last Global game (not the incredibly slow one I’m playing online right now :roll:) where the British attackers on the Italian fleet was mortally wounded, with only a fighter surviving (where it thereafter was destroyed because it could not land anywhere). I’ve run multiple simulations after that game on a British attack on the Italian fleet, and the Italians survived relatively intact seven out of thirteen times while inflicting horrendous losses on the British.
So I don’t think we need to fix anything, at least not at the moment while everyone’s nitpicking everything. The attack on the Italian fleet is risky and can end in disaster for either side roughly equally. Why? Because of the dice.
I JUST lost a Taranto battle, damaging the BB while losing everything except the ftr. I rolled 1@2, 3@3, and 2@4, and I could only get 1 hit. He rolled 2@3 and 2@4 and got 3 hits.
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@UN:
Just because the Italians lose their fleet doesn’t mean the axis lose.
Agreed.
But seriously, Italy is not broken. At all. I understand that the game is only days old, and that people should nitpick it as much as possible, but I hope they understand that in Europe, there is really no right or wrong strategy. Everything has its pros and cons.
For example, a UK1 attack on the Italian fleet.
Pros: Destroys half of the Italian naval prescense, has support of the French fleet, prevents Italy from reinforcing Africa (temporarily perhaps), and from getting its NO.
Cons: The Germans can definitely strike at the Allied navy from France if it wanted to with the Luftwaffe (given it survived relatively intact in the attack on France and the British navy), sinking a CV, fighter, tac. bomber, cruiser and destroyer, giving the Italians plenty of time to re-build its fleet while the Brits have little to no naval prescense in the Med now.
HOWEVER: the other thing is the dice. THE DICE. The dice decides the battles. Strategies are one thing, but rolling the dice truly decides the fate of battles. I can list every pro and con of attacking the Italian fleet on UK1, but they can all suddenly be null and void if the dice leans towards one or the other. I’ve had an instance in my last Global game (not the incredibly slow one I’m playing online right now :roll:) where the British attackers on the Italian fleet was mortally wounded, with only a fighter surviving (where it thereafter was destroyed because it could not land anywhere). I’ve run multiple simulations after that game on a British attack on the Italian fleet, and the Italians survived relatively intact seven out of thirteen times while inflicting horrendous losses on the British.
So I don’t think we need to fix anything, at least not at the moment while everyone’s nitpicking everything. The attack on the Italian fleet is risky and can end in disaster for either side roughly equally. Why? Because of the dice.
I JUST lost a Taranto battle, damaging the BB while losing everything except the ftr. I rolled 1@2, 3@3, and 2@4, and I could only get 1 hit. He rolled 2@3 and 2@4 and got 3 hits.
What was up against what, exactly? I thought the Western Italian fleet only has a battleship and cruiser? :?
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