Converting to KJF

[TheDesertFox]

@crockett36

Precisely, you could almost think of it as a the ocean canopener.

[squirecam]

Well the test has lasted seven turns. It’s gotten to the point that’s it’s far afield of what we were supposed to be testing.

But DF I think one thing is not to ignore the Russians in Amur. I think you simply bite that bullet and attack them J1 and get it over with. It’s too restrictive to leave them because you have to constantly watch the northern flank with them there.

[TheDesertFox]

@squirecam

And of all else, ultimately that is what one should resort to. Get the battle over with, get those infantry off the land before they can consolidate, I mean you’ve got atleast 10 infantry to do with with along with some heavy airpower which would ultimately create a setback toward the Allied plan in mainland Asia.

And frankly, it’s nothing short of a few infantry and artillery taken away that could make any difference at all, so there’s no reason not to attack Amur. You attack it, clean it up, with little no no probability that the Soviet Union would attack back, but yeah I do absolutely agree with your sediment.

[General 6 Stars]

Not trying to derail thread here but what’s the penalty for Japan attacking Russia turn 1 ? Mongolians become Russia ?

[squirecam]

@gen-manstein said in Converting to KJF:

Not trying to derail thread here but what’s the penalty for Japan attacking Russia turn 1 ? Mongolians become Russia ?

Yes

[TheDesertFox]

@gen-manstein

Yeah. 6 infantry already across land of no value, its nothing short of a small insignificant inconvenience for Japan

[General 6 Stars]

@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:

@gen-manstein

Yeah. 6 infantry already across land of no value, its nothing short of a small insignificant inconvenience for Japan

This should have more than 6 inf. Japan needs to pay for it. Or another way is add more inf to China

[crockett36]

@gen-manstein I did and China is 90 mine.

[General 6 Stars]

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@gen-manstein I did and China is 90 mine.

What does this mean ?

[crockett36]

From my point of view, I break down my current game with Squirecam this way. I presented a strategy that would draw Japan’s eyes away from it’s surefire path to the big bucks (around 40 or less) AND put the Japanese out of position AND gave my Asian allies time to surge, making China difficult and Calcutta impossible.

Squirecam shrewdly preempted my strategy. I kept building in the Pac 100 percent until the West Coast was threatened. This was easily countered. The tactics changed from waves of subs because the enemy let me draw him away from the gold. I think a weaker player might have fallen for a VC grab, but I woke up to it and made it impossible.

He also considered SeaLion, but I was able to counter that by a retreat from the Med and an aggressive build of attackers that made the Atlantic unsafe. It is quite an unusual game and worth a look. Lastly a rush on Moscow is being made that looks to fall short.

So it is my contention that the strategy was effective and I am more than willing to try again. A fun crazy game.

[crockett36]

@gen-manstein I added Russian fast movers to China from the West. I own most of China.

[squirecam]

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

From my point of view, I break down my current game with Squirecam this way. I presented a strategy that would draw Japan’s eyes away from it’s surefire path to the big bucks (around 40 or less) AND put the Japanese out of position AND gave my Asian allies time to surge, making China difficult and Calcutta impossible.

Squirecam shrewdly preempted my strategy. I kept building in the Pac 100 percent until the West Coast was threatened. This was easily countered. The tactics changed from waves of subs because the enemy let me draw him away from the gold. I think a weaker player might have fallen for a VC grab, but I woke up to it and made it impossible.

He also considered SeaLion, but I was able to counter that by a retreat from the Med and an aggressive build of attackers that made the Atlantic unsafe. It is quite an unusual game and worth a look. Lastly a rush on Moscow is being made that looks to fall short.

So it is my contention that the strategy was effective and I am more than willing to try again. A fun crazy game.

Yeah I wanted to just see if Germany would make it. I think they would have to slow and stage now, having Volgograd and Caucus for income and try to bleed $.

I think your strategy is interesting, but you didnt stick with it. If you hadnt, Germany would have taken Moscow, but I wanted to see how bad off Japan would have been. As it was all of the subs moved to the Med with both UK and USA. So Japan never lost its fleet and can now get the money islands.

The next time you test it, I would not change so you can figure out whether it actually works. Keep everything in the Pacific and see what happens.

The only thing I would change from the axis perspective is to simply kill the russians first. Leaving them is too restrictive.

[squirecam]

@gen-manstein said in Converting to KJF:

@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:

@gen-manstein

Yeah. 6 infantry already across land of no value, its nothing short of a small insignificant inconvenience for Japan

This should have more than 6 inf. Japan needs to pay for it. Or another way is add more inf to China

I disagree on this. The only way more inf would be fair is if USSR cant attack Japan first.

[General 6 Stars]

There’s more to my comment but not the place.

[crockett36]

@squirecam @squirecam again let me say, if you play the way Japan usually does, I will implement my plan. You did my work for me by draining the Asia army white. I will always adjust, trying to make the fight t1 to t3 all about the mid pacific. Japan can’t recover, us attention goes to the Atlantic.

Try again?

[squirecam]

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@squirecam @squirecam again let me say, if you play the way Japan usually does, I will implement my plan. You did my work for me by draining the Asia army white. I will always adjust, trying to make the fight t1 to t3 all about the mid pacific. Japan can’t recover, us attention goes to the Atlantic.

Try again?

We will have to agree to disagree. Japan has its entire fleet, no warships of any note are in the pacific and Japan has the phillipines and will have all the $ islands next turn. It still has Hawaii currently.

I thought the point of this test was to see if the USA could sub stall or defeat Japan. If you want to test that, we could try again. But you have to stay within the test parameters.

But IMHO moving subs into the med actually shows the strategy wasn’t working, or you were not willing to lose Moscow and so you abandoned the pacific.

Had you stayed, you might have eventually amassed 21 USA subs to attack the fleet. But they would have died too. And by then Moscow would have fallen.

There is nothing wrong with attacking Italy. It’s the weakest Axis power and very vulnerable. But that isnt the point of the test. Sub stalling the Italians is easy. Japan, not so much.

If your point is to simply abandon the pacific then there is no use going with another test. The title of this thread, and the test, was to KJF. That didnt happen and wouldn’t anytime soon as you took your subs away.

If we try again as you say, then we need to play out your Pacific theory. You keep all of the subs and air in the Pacific to see if Japan’s fleet is destroyed and the income nerfed before Moscow falls. By this, japan has no mainland income (and no russian income substituting for China) and no islands either, except for Japan.

I will make the same Axis moves with the possible exception of attacking the Russians on turn 1. So you know exactly what the Japanese plan is.

I am also unclear as to what you mean by “play Japan the way it’s usually played”. By that do you mean completely ignore the USA so it can build up at will and safely move around the Pacific? Because that’s a mistake.

[squirecam]

@gen-manstein said in Converting to KJF:

There’s more to my comment but not the place.

I’m interested in your thoughts.

[General 6 Stars]

It pertains to house rules so most won’t be interested in

[crockett36]

@squirecam we will have to disagree. Japan is in ruins. a look at Japan s income indicates your total defeat in Pacific. Ergo my strategy succeeded.

[squirecam]

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@squirecam we will have to disagree. Japan is in ruins. a look at Japan s income indicates your total defeat in Pacific. Ergo my strategy succeeded.

???

Japan has 39 IPC. They will get at least 12 more guaranteed next turn. They are the only power in the pacific with a fleet. In fact, its still their entire starting fleet, losing no ships at all. You have wierd ideas if you consider that “ruins” or a total defeat…

Your strategy, which you abandoned, wasnt working. Your strategy was to destroy the IJN.

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@crockett36 korea does not factor into this strategy. Especially given the convoy situation. It’s about destroying the ijn.

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@crockett36 get the ijn focused on usa and lock horns until death do we part. Everyone else takes care of the rest of the world

None of that happened. The IJN is undamged. The USA was wiped at Hawaii. The allied subs you purchased fled the Pacific.

But other people can view the game and make up their own minds.

DF, take a look at the game file below.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37066/squirecam-vs-crockett/93?_=1623085705877