Air Combat Rules interpretation and Thanks

[oldsalty]

My son and I have been avid players of all the AA games before we found this site.  We are now anxious to start using your map and enhanced rules.  We set it up last night and will begin play this Friday.  Many thanks for all involved for your hard work and in sharing the maps and player aids.

Question on air combat.  In a land battle where the attacker has air superiority and the defender has no anti-aircraft capability, it appears the attacker’s aircraft can continually blast away uncontested until the defender is either wiped out or retreats.  Correct?

Question on oil availability 1939 map.  If UK starts without any oil countries, do they get it from the US or do they need to acquire a territory with oil by the third round of play?  Japan and Germany in same situation but will get oil when Germany annexes Romania 3rd round and Japan conquers Borneo or East Indies.  Britain can not conquer so can only hope to ally with an oil producer.

Thanks in advance.

[Imperious Leader]

My son and I have been avid players of all the AA games before we found this site.  We are now anxious to start using your map and enhanced rules.  We set it up last night and will begin play this Friday.  Many thanks for all involved for your hard work and in sharing the maps and player aids.

Thanks for that, but lets not use the word “enhanced” please. Its AARHE which is a historical based edition.

Question on air combat.  In a land battle where the attacker has air superiority and the defender has no anti-aircraft capability, it appears the attacker’s aircraft can continually blast away uncontested until the defender is either wiped out or retreats.  Correct?

Sort of… you engage in land combat but both sides have planes… these planes cannot roll against land targets until the air superiority of a airspace is achieved. Both sides roll planes concurrently with ongoing land battle using aerial combat values  these are printed in a table in the ruleset. They are reduced values because its not land combat, but aerial dogfights. Of course either side can retreat after any round, and if the land battle is still going on the planes can allocate the normal combat factor to attack land units.

Question on oil availability 1939 map.  If UK starts without any oil countries, do they get it from the US or do they need to acquire a territory with oil by the third round of play?  Japan and Germany in same situation but will get oil when Germany annexes Romania 3rd round and Japan conquers Borneo or East Indies.  Britain can not conquer so can only hope to ally with an oil producer.

ok lets look at the rules…

Oil Centers
Economic attacks against these territories are up to the limit of twice the territory income value. When these territories are captured for the first time a plunder roll is allowed and the die value is additional IPC lost by the original player and additional income on its next “Collect Income” phase. When you hold no oil centers for 3 consecutive game rounds, all non-infantry units cost one additional IPC and during this time all your land units move only one space. Air units are at half ranges, and naval units (except submarines) move only one space.

UK imports most of her oil. Her infantry are fixed cost. Since she didn’t start with any oil centers, she cant lose them and result in cost overrun on her armor, reducing their movement. The rule is ONLY for nations that start with oil centers.

This presents a target which follows historical value and models the realistic considerations that motivated figures like Hitler and Tojo to go after the oil.

So basically if you have an oil center you must protect it and defend it. UK has enough problems with German subs taking off 1 IPC while stationed in the Atlantic. Likewise the Soviets need to protect the oil.

and now Japan… Japan started the war to keep oil flowing since USA cut it off. I guess we need to add something for them like “Japan must capture one oil center by turn 7 or face effects of oil shortage”  I would place this turn by the turn after which USA is activated under 1939 rules in the event Japan does not attack. That buys Japan only one turn to avoid the USA and or avoid taking oil. As you know if USA is not attacked by Japan on turn 6, they can start war on turn 7.

If you have any more questions as always ask them here, but remember its AARHE for your heading on the topic post

[Jennifer]

@Imperious:

My son and I have been avid players of all the AA games before we found this site.  We are now anxious to start using your map and enhanced rules.  We set it up last night and will begin play this Friday.  Many thanks for all involved for your hard work and in sharing the maps and player aids.

Thanks for that, but lets not use the word “enhanced” please. Its AARHE which is a historical based edition.

Yea, please!  I was confused, because there is an Axis and Allies Enhanced version out there, but it does not require “oil countries” so it took a moment for me to realize what edition you were talking about. wink

Is okay, we forgive you. ^_^

[oldsalty]

Point taken on “historical”.

Thanks for imput but lets see if I get the intent correct.

Quote:

UK imports most of her oil. Her infantry are fixed cost. Since she didn’t start with any oil centers, she cant lose them and result in cost overrun on her armor, reducing their movement. The rule is ONLY for nations that start with oil centers.

Does this mean that US and Russia have their own, UK has the US supply which is constant.  Germany gets Romania automatically turn 3 but has to protect.  That leaves Japan who has to aquire its oil by force and protect or its hammered with cost and movement penalties?  I like your proposed rule for turn 7.  Makes the South Pacific islands and China strategies much more interesting.

Quote:

planes can allocate the normal combat factor to attack land units.

Does this mean that if I have air superiority in China, I can use only planes to eliminate China’s land forces and then move my land forces in without exposing my land troops in battle?

[Imperious Leader]

Quote:
Quote
UK imports most of her oil. Her infantry are fixed cost. Since she didn’t start with any oil centers, she cant lose them and result in cost overrun on her armor, reducing their movement. The rule is ONLY for nations that start with oil centers.

Does this mean that US and Russia have their own, UK has the US supply which is constant.  Germany gets Romania automatically turn 3 but has to protect.  That leaves Japan who has to aquire its oil by force and protect or its hammered with cost and movement penalties?  I like your proposed rule for turn 7.  Makes the South Pacific islands and China strategies much more interesting.

USA, RUSSIA, GERMANY and on turn 6 JAPAN require at least one oil center. ON turn 3 Germany gets Romania and need to protect it. Japan is a special case because she has oil reserves to last her thru turn 6. If she does not capture one oil center by turn 7 her non-infantry units cost +1 and her 2 movement land units now move 1 space. In the war those dutch colonies were the most critical to Japan and a major reason why they didn’t get captured till the end of the war.

Quote:
Quote
planes can allocate the normal combat factor to attack land units.

Does this mean that if I have air superiority in China, I can use only planes to eliminate China’s land forces and then move my land forces in without exposing my land troops in battle?

NO you can never have more air units involved in attacking land units than you have land units. So 5 infantry and 2 tanks can be supported by a maximum of 7 planes, but as you lose forces less planes will be available for duty. This cuts out the trick of attacking somebody with 5 planes and 2 infantry causing more damage that was possible.  The air units NEED the land units to support them.

[Bierwagen]

@oldsalty:

Does this mean that if I have air superiority in China, I can use only planes to eliminate China’s land forces and then move my land forces in without exposing my land troops in battle?

Evening OldSalty!

I’m a recent convert to AARHE as well (n.b., thanks to IL and Tekky walking me through it)!  Air combat and superiority rules were perplexing at first, but keep at it – it’ll come naturally and is worth the effort.  (n.b., I’m assuming you are playing with AAHRE Lite?)

One of the key points that you have to wrap your head around is that Air Power requires boots on the ground to be effective.  And likewise – boots on the ground require air power to effective.  It’s a battle for two domains at the same time.

If you attack with just airplanes, they only get one round of strafing before they have to retreat AND they only attack at a 1 because they don’t have any ground units.

Fighters only get their full combat attack value when they are matched 1-for-1 with ground units AND they have air superiority at the beginning of the combat round.  Any extra fighters above the 1-to-1 ratio only attack at a 1.

It also emphasizes balance.  Lose your ground forces and the air units supporting them have to retreat.  It is very cool stuff and changes all the tactics and strategies drastically.

IL and Tekky have answered quite a few questions from our gaming group over the last couple months, so if you search the forums you should find some of our ramblings as we bumbled through it.

The 10 of us have probably played close to 10-15 games and we’re still working through it.  It’s difficult to give up old habits – but the end result is a much more involved game.

I still need to try the 1939 version, but I had a hard enough time convincing the group to just try AARHE Lite.

Enjoy the day!

• Bierwagen

[oldsalty]

Bierwagen:

Thanks for clearing up the concept.  Makes a lot of sense which is why I like this version of AA.

Which begs the same question then about bombers.  The focus on bombers in the manual is mainly SBR and GI which again makes total sense.  But I don’t find any concepts about fire against ground troops with air superiority.  My logic, limited as it may be, tells me that most of the actual missions were for SBR and GI but I have to assume bombers played a limited active role against ground units.  What is the actual or proposed ruling?

[Imperious Leader]

The bombers DO perform rolls on ground units when they gain air superiority. They carpet bomb the defensive positions to soften up for armor thrust.

However, with DAS missions you will need escorts so after air combat they can be around to fight…but the allocation of escorts would be greater to support these missions with Bombers, while SBR only allows units actually in the territory to defend in that one round of air combat before the bomber drops its bombs. So you can see using bombers on SBR is a more profitable experience for Bombers because it models their weakness as a target for dogfights, when SBR is a one shot deal.

That was the intention at least in my view.

So to summarize:

If you bring bombers to fight land targets expect a few rounds of dogfights and more choices by the defender to support his land units

If you bring bombers for SBR or Ground interdiction expect lower loses because its only one round of air combat ( after ID rolls as usual)

In land combat i would use bombers is possible defender air is weak.

[Imperious Leader]

forgot one clarification: I thought i may have told you that extra planes cannot roll against land units and they must be matched with equal land units…that is not true… they still roll, but only at 1 if you have extra air units…

“When only one side has air units at the beginning of combat cycle, air units fight with normal combat values
when matched 1-to-1 with a friendly land unit. Excess air units fight at combat value of 1.”

also lets review rules on air missions:

Counter-Air (CA)
For the same number of attacking CA air units, the same number of defending air units in the territory may
not perform DAS. Your air units must retreat to the original territory in Non-combat Move.

This is where you are strafing enemy air fields and they get up planes and your just fighting plane vs plane….like the Battle of Britain. You gain the additional advantage of tying down an equal number of defending fighters that can potentially fly a DAS mission.

Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR)
Each of your Bomber surviving Infrastructure Defense fire and aerial combat may choose to roll to reduce
the territory’s income, or reduce unit production [ on the next page] at its Industrial Complex. The die value
is the number of IPC lost, or number of units reduced respectively. If optional rule Strategic Redeployment
[ on the following page] is selected, it also rolls for SR damage hitting on a 4. The die value equals to
number of SR points reduced. All damage are applied to the enemy’s next turn.

In this action you reduce income and potentially SR deployment because your bombing the infrastructure of the enemies logistics to support his front line units…. Thats what Strategic Redeployment is about. IN the actual SBR mission ID rolls, and one round of air combat, surviving bombers SBR and return back to base.

Ground Interdiction (GI)
Each of your Bomber surviving Infrastructure Defense fire and aerial combat may roll to reduce enemy
ability to perform reinforcement. The die value is the number of hostile land units unable to perform
Reinforcement [ on the current page] in Non-combat Move phase this turn.

So obviously a Bomber can tie up enemy movement by rail in NCM. Very important when your doing D-day, so that Germans cant reinforce his counter attack against your beachhead…. Its very nice modeling in this idea and gives bombers alot of options for their hefty price tag. This form only needs to fight against ID rolls…no enemy planes can hurt you.

I am here always to help you guys. I will support you 200% always…if you have any questions ask no matter what. I really want to help you enjoy this.

I will work on a custom score sheet to add the player aids so you can keep track of various game features on IPC reduction etc…

Ill have it up in a few days. It will look nice.