I don’t buy it. It doesn’t excuse USSR to be this weak. The only conclusion I can come up with is ether they didn’t test Germany vs USSR enough OR they wanted USSR to be this weak.
The Bright Skies
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I would love to see some games that have implemented this strategy. They would be good to dissect, and it has certainly raised some valid points from both sides.
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I would love to see some games that have implemented this strategy. They would be good to dissect, and it has certainly raised some valid points from both sides.
I will have a live game sunday where I will test it against my father. Will make pictures and a battle report. However he is the least experienced Axis player of us, normally being Russia/USA himself.
Started two TripleA games also, but have no time unfortunately to continue them for the next month.
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I’m finishing up a game now (at my house). I might try to implement this strategy in one of my upcoming games to see what it is like for myself.
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I also like to share my view on Russian economy, to support why I am so positive Russia can become most exciting nation to play instead of most boring.
RUSSIA = 30 IPC
But many national objecties to growSiberia: +7 IPC
SZ125: +5 IPC
Iraq: +5 IPC
Italian Somaliland + Libya: +7 IPC
Italian Islands: +6 IPC
Scandinavia: +11 IPCThat is +41 IPC, PER TURN for a total of 71 IPC without entering German borders (as those can be easily defended by Germany)
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Yes but you have to account for the loss of territories throughout time, as well as the ability to lose some of those bonuses like sz125. I don’t think Russian IPC income can become a monster. It is difficult for Russia to obtain some of these, and it would take some time to grab the Mediterranean and African territories for the bonuses. You also have to think about the amount of resources it would take for Russia to obtain all of the bonuses that you listed. How would you plan on gaining this very large amount of IPCs?
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Yes but you have to account for the loss of territories throughout time, as well as the ability to lose some of those bonuses like sz125. I don’t think Russian IPC income can become a monster. It is difficult for Russia to obtain some of these, and it would take some time to grab the Mediterranean and African territories for the bonuses. You also have to think about the amount of resources it would take for Russia to obtain all of the bonuses that you listed. How would you plan on gaining this very large amount of IPCs?
I think only the Scandinavian is the difficult one actually.
Iraq + Africa + Island is simple.
Take Iraq R3, one tank will go to Libya, one mech to Somaliland
Take Libya + Somaliland R5
Get tank + mech in 2 USA transports R6
Unload at the islands in R7 and collect bonusSiberia NO, keep the 18 at Buryatia
SZ125, let the UK fight for this one with destroyers. Use your own sub first. Not too impossible.
Scandinavia needs most planning and effort, but when you keep Novgorod and USA bombers destroys Baltic fleet, it is realistic and possible.
So actually just 1 tank + 1 mech for 17 IPC south
UK help for S125 so free for 5 IPC
Combine Russia and USA effort for 11 IPC scandinavia -
So yes Russia will lose a lot of territory, I am planning on it, especially in the South. However I will keep Leningrad and surroundings and will keep making a healthy 40-45 until I get to Scandinavia + Africa. Then it becomes a monster able to overpower Germany on its own.
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Right, so some of these you don’t achieve until late game. The Scandinavia gambit is controversial because if the German player is skilled, they will not lose Scandinavia, or if they did, it’s because they wanted Russia to waste time and units from defending Novgorod and or Moscow. I feel as though the reason most players play a conservative “boring” game with Russia is because of trial and error. When I first began playing AA years ago, everyone wanted to play an aggressive Russian game including myself, because in human nature. You want to have some fun battles and out maneuver the enemy and out smart the enemy. However through trial and error we find that Russia cannot keep up with the ever expanding German forces. Germany rapidly gains IPCs and Russian territories, while Russia is slowly losing IPCs and retreating. Russia cannot compete in this way, and instead are forced into a shell (Moscow). The only way that Russia is going to be able to compete in a way in which you describe is if the German player has dedicated their game strategy to taking out the UK both in the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean. Which is not the case most of the time, because Russia is a sleeping giant. If you look into the war in real life, Hitler realized this too late. He knew that he would have to attack Russia and have a two front war and by waiting too long he allowed for Russia to gain too much momentum.
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the only aggressive play russia can do is to dick around in china, especially if Germany buys navy
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I also like to share my view on Russian economy, to support why I am so positive Russia can become most exciting nation to play instead of most boring.
RUSSIA = 30 IPC
But many national objecties to growSiberia: +7 IPC
SZ125: +5 IPC
Iraq: +5 IPC
Italian Somaliland + Libya: +7 IPC
Italian Islands: +6 IPC
Scandinavia: +11 IPCThat is +41 IPC, PER TURN for a total of 71 IPC without entering German borders (as those can be easily defended by Germany)
How is Russia getting the Italian islands? They’re loading on US/UK transports in the Med?
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Right, so some of these you don’t achieve until late game. The Scandinavia gambit is controversial because if the German player is skilled, they will not lose Scandinavia, or if they did, it’s because they wanted Russia to waste time and units from defending Novgorod and or Moscow. I feel as though the reason most players play a conservative “boring” game with Russia is because of trial and error. When I first began playing AA years ago, everyone wanted to play an aggressive Russian game including myself, because in human nature. You want to have some fun battles and out maneuver the enemy and out smart the enemy. However through trial and error we find that Russia cannot keep up with the ever expanding German forces. Germany rapidly gains IPCs and Russian territories, while Russia is slowly losing IPCs and retreating. Russia cannot compete in this way, and instead are forced into a shell (Moscow). The only way that Russia is going to be able to compete in a way in which you describe is if the German player has dedicated their game strategy to taking out the UK both in the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean. Which is not the case most of the time, because Russia is a sleeping giant. If you look into the war in real life, Hitler realized this too late. He knew that he would have to attack Russia and have a two front war and by waiting too long he allowed for Russia to gain too much momentum.
You will likely be right as you all got more than 100 battles under your belt and tried everything. However so far the arguments were that Novgorod would fall in any case, or they could just bypass it and take Moscow. I have proven these arguments wrong so far by theory, so with more arguments you could break down the hypothesis.
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Well that is the point I have just touched on. Your hypothesis has been tested over the course of thousands of AA games by the AA community. The Russian strategy has been refined down to what it is now, with the exception of the occasional outlier. Your small scale purchases may not consist entirely of infantry, however the importance of stacking Moscow has been proven to be what makes or breaks an allied defense.
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@IKE:
I also like to share my view on Russian economy, to support why I am so positive Russia can become most exciting nation to play instead of most boring.
RUSSIA = 30 IPC
But many national objecties to growSiberia: +7 IPC
SZ125: +5 IPC
Iraq: +5 IPC
Italian Somaliland + Libya: +7 IPC
Italian Islands: +6 IPC
Scandinavia: +11 IPCThat is +41 IPC, PER TURN for a total of 71 IPC without entering German borders (as those can be easily defended by Germany)
How is Russia getting the Italian islands? �They’re loading on US/UK transports in the Med?
Yes, USA pacific fleet comes to Med with two transports. Once those transports are empty they come pick up the Russian fortune seekers ;)
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If you look into the war in real life, Hitler realized this too late. He knew that he would have to attack Russia and have a two front war and by waiting too long he allowed for Russia to gain too much momentum.
Hitler was crazy. He was never going to take down Russia. His only hope was for them to join the Axis (which they offered to do), but he blew it.
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Nobody will argue that Hitler was crazy haha.
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Yeah, I suppose I shouldn’t be derailing a good conversation like that.
My perspective on all this fancy Russia stuff is that it’s important to study in order to have an idea of Russia’s hidden potential in this game, but then at the same time to recognize that in many (perhaps most) games it will be infeasible to try to act on that potential. If Germany blows a couple rolls or starts throwing money into the water, then yes, you immediately do bright skies or red skies/red waters/red tigers/bright tigers/whatever grand Allied fantasy you’ve spent hours coming up with, and that’s how you win that particular game. The point is you don’t just start doing it before you see a strategic situation you can capitalize on where you know you will be at an advantage when you do.
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Yeah, I suppose I shouldn’t be derailing a good conversation like that.
My perspective on all this fancy Russia stuff is that it’s important to study in order to have an idea of Russia’s hidden potential in this game, but then at the same time to recognize that in many (perhaps most) games it will be infeasible to try to act on that potential. If Germany blows a couple rolls or starts throwing money into the water, then yes, you immediately do bright skies or red skies/red waters/red tigers/bright tigers/whatever grand Allied fantasy you’ve spent hours coming up with, and that’s how you win that particular game. The point is you don’t just start doing it before you see a strategic situation you can capitalize on where you know you will be at an advantage when you do.
Exactly! That is why it is a bad idea to build mainly normal infantry as Russia, as you will not be able to capitalize on mistakes. The plan is to hold Novgorod, if this seems impossible, retreat back to Moscow as usual. However this retreat becomes much easier when the infantry is mechanized.
Trying to hold Novgorod might be a fancy plan dependent on mistakes of Germany. However building mainly mechanized infantry is always usefull for Russia. Depending on how likely it comes to the defense of Moscow, start adding normal infantry. As long you place 10 units per turn in Moscow, what is the difference?
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Like I said, we will just have to give it some play time, and see where it can or cannot be improved upon.
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Regarding the Russian economy…here’s another idea it does have some negatives that need to be managed… Declare war on Japan and attack Mongolia 1 turn before you think Germany will invade. With air support those 18 infantry back east can sweep thru mongolia in 2 turns. Maybe a tank and mech as well. Once at war in Europe the NO for Russia kicks in. You have converted Mongolia to pro axis and captured them…that’s 18 a additional ipcs a turn. You have also successfully moved your infantry away from the coast and amphibious assaults but still threaten japan’s goal of crushing China. In fact with a strong Calcutta Yunnan force to the south and a ton of Russians in the north, Japan should be challenged how to allocate their scarce land troops. Throw in a straffing raid in Afghanistan from UKP plus middle east money including Saudi Arabia it could be an additional 12 ipcs bonus…pushing up to 30 bonus just for holding pro axis neutrals.
Maybe time a Spanish beachhead to minimize Germany bonus for activating Spain? Maybe a Persian factory to mitigate turkey getting activated by Italy or germany?Read the rule book again. Original pro-axis neutral
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Colt45 is correct, the Mongolians can’t give Russia any income. You’ve got to go for Iraq and the Italian territories in Africa and the Mediterranean if you want to go for sneaky Russian income boosting.
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