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An idea for balancing OOB with minimal change



  • Make Italy neutral, with a rule for Italy to autobuild infantries and/or 1 naval piece per turn.

    Give the option to any nation to bribe Italy to join their side.

    Bribe is made like tech in A&A.

    You spend 5 IPC per dice you want to buy.

    If you roll a 6 Italy joins your side, otherwise you just wated IPCs.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Evening Noll. Hope you have been well.
    Italy would change everything, wouldn’t it? I like the idea.
    I cannot win as the CPs, so would like some help. Making Albania Turk friendly would help too.
    My friend have started a game with the French having one fewer TT and a CR instead of the Med Battleship.
    I still think I have no chance. India is too strong, as UK can spend all its money there. (Wrong in my opinion.)


  • Customizer

    Which rules are you playing?

    Doesn’t TR help the Centrals?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    What is TR Flashman?



  • Italy should never switch sides, that’s just too complicated.
    But the central powers should be able to bribe Italy to stay neutral for a while.

    Italy rolls a die at the start of each of its turns. If the number is EQUAL TO or LESS THAN the current turn number, then they go to war.
    Any central power player can pay 5 IPCs during this phase, and if they do, Italy adds one to its die roll. (Bribes must be made before the die is rolled)
    Italy adds an additional one to its die roll for each 5 IPCs paid.
    Italy will automatically go to war on the roll of a ‘1’ at any time after the United States is at war or Russia has capitulated to the Central Powers.
    Italy will automatically go to war if it is ever attacked.


  • Customizer

    Sorry, Potential Tournament Rules

    I’m in favour of neutral Italy R1, but it shouldn’t have a turn until at war, nor should the USA (income for the latter needs to be increased accordingly).

    Turkey should be treated as neutral until its own first turn; indeed there’s a case for it being treated as an aligned neutral until activated by G or A.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_Goeben_and_Breslau


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    What you say makes total sense Flashman.
    Would be hard to have the Turks activated by another CP, otherwise all good.
    Nothing wrong with the first turn being a quick one, with only 5 active players.
    I think we are all awaiting an official revision of the rules, but without having to buy a second edition.



  • I like this kind of thinking. Starting Italy neutral with no money (but still being able to move, and if Austria attacks Venice or Albania they immediately collect 14 IPCs) was one of my ideas. I also considered raising the price of non-infantry units in India by 1, or make them take 2 turns to be placed (using Himalayas to simulate this delay).

    About aligned Ottomans/Goeben&Breslau, maybe have 2 German cruisers in SZ 19 instead of the Ottomans in SZ 20, and if there is a German naval unit is in SZ 20 at the beginning of the Ottoman turn, the Ottomans go to war and take control of said German naval unit(s). The only problem I see with this is that the Russian cruisers would pretty much always move to SZ 20 to force one round of combat and the French Med fleet has a good shot at wiping them out, keeping the Ottomans out until Austria can move ground units in.



  • my group has a few suggestions

    complete neutrality: for italy till I2 and US till US6. (so no buying, moving of any kind)
    bit less allied forces in africa (like in new tournament rules)
    remove biskaje fleet
    add a few ottomans

    (you can pick which ones to use, don’t have to be all of them)


  • Customizer

    Yes, neutral counties cannot do anything until they’re at war; even moving units under the protection of neutrality is an unfair advantage.

    Remember that even mobilizing was considered in effect an act of war.

    It has to be worthwhile for Austria to leave Italy alone on A1; if Italy can move forces up to Venice while neutral the Austrians will always attack it first turn anyway.

    My map revision has 2 Turkish SZs, so Russia would not be able to block the “Goeben” move, nor would the Italian Navy if still neutral.

    Straits.PNG


  • Customizer

    @ColonelCarter:

    About aligned Ottomans/Goeben&Breslau, maybe have 2 German cruisers in SZ 19 instead of the Ottomans in SZ 20, and if there is a German naval unit is in SZ 20 at the beginning of the Ottoman turn, the Ottomans go to war and take control of said German naval unit(s). The only problem I see with this is that the Russian cruisers would pretty much always move to SZ 20 to force one round of combat and the French Med fleet has a good shot at wiping them out, keeping the Ottomans out until Austria can move ground units in.

    Except that Russia attacking the Turkish fleet would automatically bring the Ottomans into the war anyway.

    Another question is this: does a neutral Turkey allow the warships of belligerents (i.e. Russia) to pass through the straits? I’m assuming that all ships can pass through the waters of a neutral Italy, but the straits are another thing altogether.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#World_War_I.2C_1914.E2.80.931918



  • Russia moves before Germany, so they could move into OOB SZ 20 and make the German cruisers fight one round of combat before breaking off if they also wanted to end in SZ 20 to trigger the Ottomans. So either your split SZ 20 would have to be used to keep the Russian cruisers away or the Goeben/Breslau would have to instantly change sides upon moving to SZ 20. (if you don’t want to have to use a different map)

    But if I’m not mistaken, the point of keeping the Ottomans neutral until their turn is to protect them from British attack Round 1, so wouldn’t Russia want to activate them so Britain can smash them immediately just like OOB?

    Side note: the Mediterranean seems to have changed drastically in your map, is there somewhere you have the whole picture or do you not like handing it out?


  • Customizer

    See this thread for various alternative maps:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30553.0

    If Russia can attack a neutral Turkey then why not the UK?

    But you’re right, since Turkey is likely to go to war T1 there’s little advantage for the Allies in not attacking it (unless you favour a house rule banning the Allies from attacking neutrals).

    The point of Austria not attacking a neutral Italy is that it denies Italy an entire turn to collect income and build units.


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