Taranto in Alpha 3



  • Is it still possible for Britian to hit the Italian fleet as hard as it could in Alpha+2? I have a board set up in my house that i’ve been studying for the last few days and so far I dont think Britian can really hurt the Italians that badly anymore. By my count, in either sz95 or sz97 the Brits are looking at something like 2 fighters and 1 Tac scrambling to intercept an attack on either sz, and that really swings the battle towards Italys favor.

    Thoughts?



  • Yes with their Navy split differently Italy will be a new challenge for the U.K.
        Do you hit all three spots or concentrate on 2 and then there is what Germany does with their aircraft that usually goes to Italy.  I’m looking forward to the weekend already and I wonder who will pull Germany.
        Same game slightly different conditions I can see this is going to take some testing
        I need to set up multiple boards and let the Pro-Barbarossa player on one and the Pro-sea lion on the other and then see what happens to the fleet in the Med.
      I would send my planes (2 Germ) to help the Italians,and try to clean out any fleets left over from R1



  • @Clyde85:

    Thoughts?

    Huh? It’s just as easy to kill everything in SZ 97. Now you also get a bonus destroyer and transport for little effort. It’s a much better setup for the UK, especially now that they can more easily spare fighters.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    yea, send your cruiser if it survives to Malta to waste the DD/TRN then hit 97 with everything, like the good old days.

    Italy will be “lucky” it has a transport left.



  • @Gargantua:

    yea, send your cruiser if it survives to Malta to waste the DD/TRN then hit 97 with everything, like the good old days.

    Italy will be “lucky” it has a transport left.

    In a nutshell, doesn’t sound like the balance for the Axis we were hoping for.


  • Customizer

    In our games, Germany always takes out the cruiser in SZ 91 with 2 subs so it’s not available to attack the Italian fleet.

    As for the Taranto raid (sea zone 97), I don’t think it’s really worth it anymore.  You have to commit your whole Med UK fleet plus several planes to attack the Italian BB, CA and fighter plus 2 German fighters.  It’s usually a very hard battle and IF the UK wins, they usually don’t have much left, perhaps a cruiser and fighter.  Only plus is that they get to kill 2 of Italy’s 3 transports.  Now that there is only 1 transport there,  I just don’t see much of a payoff for UK risking their whole Med fleet.  Sure you kill the Italian BB, but you also end up almost handing Italy control of the Med.



  • If Germany doesn’t commit 2 fighters to protecting the Italian fleet I think the UK has a pretty good chance of knocking out all of Italy’s navy. It may only have a couple of ships and a plane left, but the UK can reinforce/rebuild a lot more easily then the Italians can



  • I am wondering which two German planes get sent to Rome most often? I send the German fighter from Hungary and the Tac from Poland. With Italy starting with a fighter in Rome already I dont think Germany needs to send much more then that.

    With this Im wondering if its still worth it to try and sink either of the 2 fleets in sz95 and 97 as you will be esientially destryong British naval power in the Med. in the the process. Now I know this maybe a nessicary sacrifice as italy can ill afford to lose so much as one ship and Britian can rebuild its fleet eaiser. Im wondering if Britian making this sacrfice is worth the breating space it give to Italy



  • Would say Taranto may not be worth it anymore, unless Germany forgets to land 2 ftrs in Rome and/or does not kill the cruiser in sz91. If Germany plays well, I would just kill the destroyer and transport in sz96 with planes and retreat behind the Suez to keep a threaton the Italian fleet for later (with the destroyer from sz71)


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I wouldnt call it a bonus destroyer.

    It’s slightly harder to get the Italians because the chance of getting diced is higher.  You have to split up your attackers to get both sides, which means less chance of consolidating hits where you want them.  It is not, by any means, impossible to do dmg to the Italians, and you might even luck out and get better results than otherwise.

    However, if you go that route, I think you are handing Japan and easy victory in Calcutta.  I’d rather pull out and make it almost impossible for Japan to get india before America gets in the game.



  • Cmdr Jen, I was thinking something along thoes lines, moving the fleet towards India by UK3 or 4. I was also thinking that as I passed back through the red sea taking out Italian east Africa and Iraq around UK2.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    It takes a minimum of two rounds to get from SZ 98 to SZ 39.  However, there is no reason not to have a layover in SZ 80 to play with Iraq/C. Persia.  I like to bring an Infantry from Malta, Armor from Alexandria (or Egypt forget which one it is in) and land them in C. Persia on England 1.



  • Im actually looking at moving the transport out of sz39 with 1infantry and 1 arty and landing them in C. Persia, then moving the fleet from sz98 to sz76 transporting 1infantry and 1 tank from egypt and alexandria respectivly, along with the cruiser from sz39 and taking out the Italians in east Africa all together on UK1. Then assaulting Iraq on UK2 with the troops in C Persia with 1 transport moving an additional infantry and tank into Iraq and having 2 cruiser shots.

    From there having the forces that took Iraq move towards Egypt to reinforce or liberate it depending on the situation while the 2 cruisers move back to sz39 along with the 2 aircraft carriers and battleship that should already be there by UK2 to counter attack the Japanese.

    The only problem is not being able to grab up alot of the DEI, atleast not until UK2, dont know how damaging this would be.



  • @Cmdr:

    I wouldnt call it a bonus destroyer.

    It’s slightly harder to get the Italians because the chance of getting diced is higher.  You have to split up your attackers to get both sides, which means less chance of consolidating hits where you want them.  It is not, by any means, impossible to do dmg to the Italians, and you might even luck out and get better results than otherwise.

    However, if you go that route, I think you are handing Japan and easy victory in Calcutta.  I’d rather pull out and make it almost impossible for Japan to get india before America gets in the game.

    Say what? You don’t have to split up anything.



  • Oops, didn’t see page 2 I guess. mantlefan is right. Taranto is exactly the same. ~65% odds in favor of the UK if there are two German fighters on S. Italy. Lose everything, and you still bloody Italy and Germany badly. Totally worth it.



  • Whhy do so many people argue the cruiser in sz91 survives? In our games, Germany kills the cruiser 9 out of 10 times



  • @mantlefan:

    @Admiral:

    Whhy do so many people argue the cruiser in sz91 survives? In our games, Germany kills the cruiser 9 out of 10 times

    How many games of Alpha +3 have you played?

    Germany is stretched out more in Alpha +.3

    Getting 91 and Normandy is a tall order.

    Even if the cruiser dies, a lone ftr stands a pretty good chance against the DD and trn. I’d still try that every time.

    Maybe he’s sending both subs against it every time. Which of course means the other naval battles are stretched thinner, or he’s just letting UK start with more ships. UK will also probably get a chance to hit those subs with a surviving destroyer.

    I agree on sending even a single fighter to SZ 96. It’s a 50% chance to take out both ships. That’s a very good risk/reward ratio, especially if Germany lost some extra planes on G1 and parked others on S. Italy.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Admiral:

    Whhy do so many people argue the cruiser in sz91 survives? In our games, Germany kills the cruiser 9 out of 10 times

    I agree in spirit, it does seem if Germany attacks the cruiser with a submarine it usually goes down (yes I realize it’s a 50/50 battle, understood on a logical standing, on an emotional one it feels like it usually goes to Germany) however, Mantlefan is right, Germany is pretty stretched now.

    I do bid 6 for a submarine, just so I can have that 50/50 shot, but when there is no bid (friendly game) I just give up that battle so I can sink both British transports, get W. France, France and Yugoslavia and get my 70 IPCs.



  • It does appear more and more now that the British curiser in sz91 will survive to UK1, so the question becomes, if it is going to be there on UK1 how do you use it? Or more specifically how does it help the British naval position in the eastern Med?


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