Best UK defense for Sealion 3 or 4 collaboration



  • @DutchmanD:

    I agree with all those comments.  The UK cannot turtle if it pull units off.  However, I guess I’m looking for a consensus on how best to spend the UK $ in a non turtle.  Dump all $ in UK to make it painful for the Germans, or just build off-site.  Sounds like you guys believe building out of one of the other factories is better.

    There is no clever way to sink all the German tnps that I see… that would be nice.

    It’s not my map, but I think it is representative of a game where the UK gets very aggressive (Taranto & Trobruk) and does not turtle.  I hate the fact that UK has to turtle at the beginning of the game and let the pastaheads run rampant.

    Any other feedback on the UK2 options?

    If I use my surrender London concept, I build 2 transports, 1 art in South Africa, use the starting transport in z98 to get free men in Persia. This gives me 3 transports that can land on Egy turn 2 with 5 more units. I’ll pull the air craft from Gibraltar,Malta,z98 to Egypt.

    There are two paths to take with the 18 IPCs left. Either a carrier, and pull the air force including France out of London and land on the carrier, in z106 or on the carrier in z92 (if you pull the Med fleet to z92 and stack on Algeria to prevent a landing site for German air force…This gives your whole air force and navy able to pounce on Italy turn 2…plus the 3 transports in Egypt staged for a pounce on S.Italy.

    Option 2( less aggression): keep the air in London turn 1, build 6 infantry and make a turn 2 Sea lion dicey…depends on how much Germany loses air wise on turn 1.

    With this strategy, you want US in position (in the Atlantic) to exploit this early DOW, or Pacific placements that permit an assault on Japan. India and Anzac will want to DOW for the war NO boost…not saying this is optimum, just aggressive. In fact, Germany may want to wait a turn before taking.

    If they wait, just plop out more carriers, and units in S.Africa until they take you.

    Here is a map for maximum(using India) aggression: you give up London, but trade it for Italy…note: India will turtle, and I use there assets against Italy, including the optional transport z39(India). This gives 9 air units and a navy against z98 (suicide zone if Italy sends a transport there). It pins the Italian navy in its port, or they die. If Italy fails to surrender a transport to close the straight, you will have a navy of: 3 crusiers, 3 dd, 5 transports, and a carrier with 9 planes (some can stage in Malta) for a turn 3 sinking of the Italian navy or capture of Rome/greece, etc. Egypt will have a land force on after turn 2 of: 9inf, 4art, mech, arm. In fact, if you keep the Med navy in Malta(with 2 planes and 3 scrambled-1 french), and the Indian navy in z81(south Egypt sea zone), you can hold both sides of the canal with the land force and air force, and spring on Italy turn 3.

    Note the German’s are in their default turn 1 positions, I just moved ships to show what UK assets would be gone. Only India and UK have placed units, and I didn’t bother placing the carrier in z106…not sure whats in there, 1 or 2 subs. You could trade it for 1 less artillery in South Africa, to have it in z81 turn 2.

    Italy conceptual turn 1.AAM
    Italy conceptual turn 2.AAM



  • This map, shows the air force on Malta, to strike the Italian navy turn 3. The 5 planes in the water are for the scramble/carrier ease of viewing…

    Italy conceptual turn 2.AAM



  • Actually, I like the carrier in z81 instead of the extra artillery:

    Now UK can land 10 units and 4 planes on Italy turn 3, forcing Italy to block z98(oops, they can’t the French dd and ftr will clear) with a surface vessel, making the fleet weaker. Turn 3: Italy has 2 builds, 10 + 15 typically =25, Germany if they had Yugo, can have an airbase, so can Italy….so they could scramble 9 planes under those conditions…(if they go that route) it will be: UK 2dd, 3ca, 2cv, 2tac, 7ftr vs Italy (assumes they lose 2 units clearing French and UK destroyter turn 1 and block z98: 2dd,2ca,BB, 7ftr, 2tac.

    Italy and Germany will lose.


  • '10

    @JamesAleman:

    If I use my surrender London concept, I build 2 transports, 1 art in South Africa, use the starting transport in z98 to get free men in Persia. This gives me 3 transports that can land on Egy turn 2 with 5 more units. I’ll pull the air craft from Gibraltar,Malta,z98 to Egypt.

    There are two paths to take with the 18 IPCs left. Either a carrier, and pull the air force including France out of London and land on the carrier, in z106 or on the carrier in z92 (if you pull the Med fleet to z92 and stack on Algeria to prevent a landing site for German air force…This gives your whole air force and navy able to pounce on Italy turn 2…plus the 3 transports in Egypt staged for a pounce on S.Italy.

    Option 2( less aggression): keep the air in London turn 1, build 6 infantry and make a turn 2 Sea lion dicey…depends on how much Germany loses air wise on turn 1.

    With this strategy, you want US in position (in the Atlantic) to exploit this early DOW, or Pacific placements that permit an assault on Japan. India and Anzac will want to DOW for the war NO boost…not saying this is optimum, just aggressive. In fact, Germany may want to wait a turn before taking.

    If they wait, just plop out more carriers, and units in S.Africa until they take you.

    Here is a map for maximum(using India) aggression: you give up London, but trade it for Italy…note: India will turtle, and I use there assets against Italy, including the optional transport z39(India). This gives 9 air units and a navy against z98 (suicide zone if Italy sends a transport there). It pins the Italian navy in its port, or they die. If Italy fails to surrender a transport to close the straight, you will have a navy of: 3 crusiers, 3 dd, 5 transports, and a carrier with 9 planes (some can stage in Malta) for a turn 3 sinking of the Italian navy or capture of Rome/greece, etc. Egypt will have a land force on after turn 2 of: 9inf, 4art, mech, arm. In fact, if you keep the Med navy in Malta(with 2 planes and 3 scrambled-1 french), and the Indian navy in z81(south Egypt sea zone), you can hold both sides of the canal with the land force and air force, and spring on Italy turn 3.

    Note the German’s are in their default turn 1 positions, I just moved ships to show what UK assets would be gone. Only India and UK have placed units, and I didn’t bother placing the carrier in z106…not sure whats in there, 1 or 2 subs. You could trade it for 1 less artillery in South Africa, to have it in z81 turn 2.

    Awesome analysis James! If London is captured, who gets the Italian $?



  • London gets the money they plunder, they may not spend it unless they retake their capital . I’m not saying Italy is going to be captured, but they will be limited in their expansion until the US arrives I suspect.



  • @DutchmanD:

    Oh, this is no more ahistoric than Italy being able to take Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt and the rest of the Mediteranean when they could even beat the Greek army with their entire military. Not to mention one of the most significant ahistorical flaws of G40, which is that the French troops in Aremain loyal to the Allies for some reason, not Axis Vichy…  and, if they are not at war, why are they killing Brits mercilessly on Italy 1? Don’t get me started on the whole “orginally owned” territory nonesense either, the Germans can buld a major IC in Norway and the UK can build one in Malaya, but the Japanses cannot build one in Shanghai; the Japanese were the first to build factories in Shanghai around 1900 after the First Sino-Japanese War, and by 1937, when they fully officially occupied the city, it had more manufacturing power than the rest of Southeast Asia combined!  Dice Gods forbid the Japs actually being able to make a major IC in an actual manufacturing center that they originally created        😉

    Ahistoric… hmpf!  Nothing like an instant 10 tnps build by the Germans and the dissappearance of essentially the entire Royal Navy in the Spring of 1940 to make you give up on all the historical aspects of the game we love…
     
    All good points, but directed more at game mechanics than historical accuracy.  I agree that the production cycle is not accurate to real life, it should take 3-4 turns for a BB to be built, but the game is not made for that scale.  All units you can build are placed almost immediately.  Both the US and UK fleets are severely nerfed, most likely in order to give the axis a chance that they didn’t have in RL.

    As for the other issues, I understand why Vichy is not in the game, you have to draw the line somewhere and Larry choose to add France but have them be inert, while China is also hamstrung.  Otherwise you get a community of people clamoring on the BBS from Bulgaria wanting special Bulgarian rules or some other nonsense.

    I have played a game where Japan could build a major in China and it did seem overpowered.  It was maxed on production and China was quickly swallowed up.  It took massive US naval builds and tenuous fighting from India to stall the Japs.  Japan was also able to not build many trns in that game and still concentrate on the Pacific islands.

    Thanks for going over the Abandon London moves again James.  One would assume they became even more potent in A3, have you had the opportunity to try it yet?  It’s playing the allies like the Axis, creating the initiative and then keeping it long enough to sack Italy…hopefully.


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