• Well I just hope that I don’t bring bad dice luck on the both of us  :wink:

    I don’t mean to whine to sound so whiny about bad dice, but I hardly would say that the last couple games have improved my strategies or are a source of strategy to study : P


  • That is why folks should be reading MY strategies from those games  :mrgreen:


  • Aww Octo you can discuss strategies with us! Just because you haven’t seen your strategy posted so far doesn’t mean we haven’t seen it or tried it ourselves or posted about it farther back in the boards or on different websites  :evil: I don’t want to wait what could be weeks before we even get to see your thoughts and analyses  :?


  • Heh, I went out to dinner for a bit.  I am still reading your posts and keeping an eye on your game that is in progress.  I am noticing that many are using very similar strategies, and some moves that appear to help really hurt the cause by moving pieces out of position.  I have found the extra sea zones in the Atlantic to be so paralyzing that I cannot get the United States involved fast enough to make any significant impact upon the Germans.  I love some of the bids that take place on the original version of axis “I’ll give you 3 inf in Lybia and an extra armor.”  Nutz.

    I think one of you guys said you lived in California, but did not specify where exactly you lived.  I am in Los Angeles, I have a few friends that play (for nearly 20 years now…wow).  My brother and his friend seemed to come to the same conclusion that I did that the Allies are in for a big hurt.

    I don’t want to spoil the surprise early, but then again, I could be a real loser and not know how to play the game.

    -O


  • I totally agree the axis are out of control.  I’ve played 18 games of Revised, and only one of those was an allied victory (germany on turn 19 moved it’s two carrier Atlantic fleets away from Germany and the USA fleet was able to slip it’s norway fleet of ten fully loaded trannies into the Baltic and take germany).  Most of the games ended with Russia dying on turn 5, turn 15, or turn 19 (weird).  :?  Germany playing turtle (lots of troops and occasionally plane, and a strong Atlantic fleet) is able to keep pace with the best that UK and USA can throw at it (usually UK  unloading 2 or 3 loaded trannies and USA with two fleets of 5 to 6 fully loaded trannies with germany smashing this into dust by the time they round the Baltic into eastern Europe after landing in Norway).  Stalemate. :x

    Japan is able to chase the US from the pacific without too much effort (after pearl harbor 2 on r1, r2 Japan smashes the US’s two newly built carriers, three ftrs, transport,  the dd and bb, with Japan only losing one loaded carrier and dd after that the US gives up the pacific with Japan loaded carrier and two bb’s smashing anything that appears).

    The allies must work together.  The UK has to kill the kwangtung tranny and the SZ45 japan sub (landing the ftr on us carrier), Russia must dump six troops in buryria, and the USSR purchasing of a single ftr on round one (which many troops after that) helps (but it only slows the axis vise on Russia).  The allies must be perfect.  A single screwup and the games is over.  The axis seems to have lots of slack and can recover from most mishaps.

    I even let the allies bid a UK factory, a USSR ftr, and USA bomber, they still lost.  They lose even quicker if tech is allowed and germany races towards rocket spam.  During on  game on round one germany got rockets, USA got hvy bmbr, and UK got hvy bmber  (okay these were LHTR crippled heavy bombers) with the purchase of a single die each…the axis still crushed the allies like bugs with the heavy bombers not being that useful with territory limits, but you have to have those limits or the rocket spam is really insane. During one game germany was making six rocket attacks on the allies-england, India, south Africa, Sinkiang, Russia,  and caucus.  Ouch (the allies lasted three turns after that).

    The revised edition is  sadly unbalanced, especially when you compare it with the “Pact of Steel” setup and map from the triplea program (played 7 games, allies 3, axis 4, still an axis advantage).

    trihero and ncscswitches games are fun since both react and counter the other well, but sadly the dice seemed to rule more then strategy.  :-(


  • The Axis kicks major butt at low levels of play. But I have yet to see a single high-skilled level game, barring terrifically bad dice, that shows the Axis have the advantage at all. In fact it’s the reverse from everything I’ve seen - the Allies win most games without a bid. It’s not overwhelming like 75% to 25%, but probably like at least 60% to 40%.


  • The general consensus on these boards is that the Axis are underpowered and require extra help to balance the play.  So, the idea is to bid to play the allies.  For example; I will offer you 2 additional infantry in Eastern Europe if you play the Axis.  Sometimes IPCs are given to the bank of Germany.  Often counter offers are made, “oh yea, I offer 3 infantry in Eastern Europe if YOU play the axis.”

    Sometimes these bids can become quite high.  I have seen bids that equal 11 IPCs in bonus pieces or even up to 22.  The discussion become, “how can I give you a ton of extra units that really don’t help you much.”

    I find this all very amusing, because I believe the Axis (while more difficult to play) do have some fantastic advantages.  I have not seen anyone use some of the strategies I employ so I am boasting it up big to get people to playtest my “theories”.

    Personally, I can’t imagine being gifted with extra units, but I can see where it will balance play against players with a skill descrepancy.

    If you dare ask more questions, I may dare to answer them!

    Octopus


  • I think the discrepancy between revised and 2nd edition is pretty large, and the axis in 2nd edition really do need a bid. I am more comfortable playing the axis sans bid in revised than 2nd edition, by far. One thing I would like to comment on is that I do not think the axis are harder to play, by any means. I believe it is the allies who must show more coordination and strategy to sucessfully crush the axis. That’s just what I think though.


  • It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I think it’s important- who are you playing against?

    If the Axis is winning nearly every game played, then there is a flaw in the players, not the game. Most likely a static strategy, or improper logistics, or just plain 'ol bad purchasing habits.

    If two people who go head to head purchase wisely, take time to plan their moves, and can see the big picture then most games should be pretty even, with a very slight allied advantage.

    And Octopus, stop teasing us with your master axis strategy… out with it!


  • I posted this yesterday in the new strat section and I feel baring horrible dice that the AXIS will not lose if this tactic is employed, thus the “Axis Powers are out of control”

    This isn’t very glamorous and actually quite mundane but effective and simple. G1 purchase 10 inf & 2 arm, bail out of Africa and never return move med fleet west (inf on Gib) threaten attack on UK in G2, land all aircraft on W.Euro, retreat E.Euro arm out of harms way and retake R1 gains w/inf, art and air force. G2 Move inf stack east and repeat every round. G never relents on it’s eastern push except to push back any landing on w.euro. J1 purchases 2 Trans, 2 armor & art attacks china and any empty ruso land, backs up fleet in the hopes of luring USA to pacific fleet purchase/build-up. J2 pours into russia and purchase IC for Manch. Both axis powers move directly on USSR and basically nothing else, possibly STR bombing USSR in subsequent rounds. Constant, constant, constant pressure on USSR like this with INF & Arm from both sides and it will fall. In revised, USA is too far away and UK not strong enough to slow down G enough. If Axis don’t get caught up in unneeded naval purchases, africa or aust campaigns then it is almost inevitable. Boring but inevitable.


  • Okay played another game after yesterdays posting, this time the allies did a KJF with USA1 buying two carriers (w/ 3 fighters) and a sub (plus the bb, dd, and transport), and then the remnants of the Pearl Harbor fleet attacks this on J2.  Disaster (Japan had two bb’s left but the usa had the bb, and two ftrs).  During USA2 they purchased a replacement carrier and IC in Sinkiang (to got with UK’s India IC).    Then ended up with island hopping for the usa on r4-r8, on R8 it was operation Overlord Japan and fell forever. UK fell to germany on r7 and smashed Moscow to a single ftr…luck was on the allies side for once.    With Japan gone the allies were able barely hold moscow during germanys next wave (again destroying 20+ units leaving moscow with a single ftr…luck was again on the allies side).  Once again the USSR purchasing a single ftr on round one can make a huge difference.

    19 games:  17-axis, 2-allies.

    I’ll see if anyones foolish enough to play the allies against me at DunDraCon. :evil:


  • Grim,

    I am most pleased to hear you view my assessment of the situation.  I am currently playing a game at the moment to demonstrate this.  This game is playing out like a math formula.

    Octo


  • I take that back.  Actually I am not pleased at all, because I believe the game is indeed broken and I wish it were better balanced.

    I am most sorry it is this way.  Armor defending at a 3? nutz.


  • Listen,

    I use to never bid, I would play either side at random and i would never lose… Oh the good ol’days of revised… back when it was fresh and I would waste hours and hours just looking at my moves, the ones that i had made the week before, and make counters for the next week when me and my group of five would step back to the table…

    Then one week i drew allies (in a solo game the night before our weekly game)… and i made a foolish mistake… and britan was lost on the second round… D’oh (homer couldn’t say it better) well regardless of my 2nd round folly i made it back to britan with the americans… I looked at the board… realized that the germans had but one fighter left… and a wimpy navy; america could deal with that… and start landings in norway… while the british recouped for the next two turns… so i decided even though the future looked bleak i could still win as the allies… the next two rounds for germany are text book, she bought 10 tanks and 6 men for a turn then 10 men and six tanks and barreled into russia… luckily i had been playing aggressive with russia and had turns to give… one thing leads to another… and germany is back in the horrid spot she always is… (trying to defend far too much coast line without any fodder so to speak) Anyway allies Russia and america creamed germany before japan could do much of anything so to speak …

    needless to say from that moment on we decided that bidding would be apart of the 5 person game every week… and in solo games aswell… usually are bids will go for as little as -2 or as high as 15… we play with one of the optional national advantages at random for each country so that effects the bidding considerably… (without national advantages usually germany will go for 8-7 ipc’s) gotta have a extra transport in the med…


  • @Patton+:

    the next two rounds for germany are text book, she bought 10 tanks and 6 men for a turn then 10 men and six tanks and barreled into russia… luckily i had been playing aggressive with russia and had turns to give… one thing leads to another… and germany is back in the horrid spot she always is… (trying to defend far too much coast line without any fodder so to speak) Anyway allies Russia and america creamed germany before japan could do much of anything so to speak …

    it just sounds like people just don’t know how to play Germany….and Japan for that matter.


  • I’m still waiting to see your secret strategy, Octo. I’ve done double complex start builds like you are trying against Switch, and it hardly gives the Axis an overwhelming advantage.


  • Hmmm,  perhaps next turn it will become more clear.

    Hint: The Axis destroyed 152 IPCs worth of Allied equipment this turn, while the Allies destroyed only 56 IPC’s worth.


  • You can say what you want to about my friend lowell, but he is good. And most weeks brings something new to the table. And anymore me and he have a 50/50 win ratio against each other…. Which side doesn’t really matter cause were bidding…

    So yeah i am talking about back in the day prolly 4 - 5months ago when we decided it was unbalanced in our games, and we decided this cause we were just getting to the point where everyone was acctually fairly good/we had seen each others moves developed our own, and were adapting to bad rolls incredibly well for our over all strategies… and we were all taking advantage of japan when ever the option was there… atleast for the first turn… I just love seeing japan with only one transport to start her first turn, when i am the allies…not so much when i am axis

    I personally thought it was stacked for the axis the first 3 times i played… then again i had only played axis and won all three times…

    Next 3 games i played allies won all three times. first game I took advantage of the Suez Canal as the brit’s and lined america up for a southern attack totally threw the new axis players for a loop, because they hadn’t seen it … and i had spent the game before dreading it possibly happening… cause the dice took advantage of me and i lost my battleship to the british destroyer in the med…

    Anyway the more games we played the better we have gotten… first off this isn’t the old version… and russia is a formidable power even making 24 to start… As the allies you just gotta get out of the old school of thought, like 8 men is a standard purchase, in the first three games i played that is what the russians always did… I usually build atleast one tank a turn… I personally like the 1 ftr, 1 tnk, and 3 men as a starting purchase, but sometimes i just go 3 men & 3 tanks depends on who i am up against and what i think they are gonna do with the axis powers…
    @Octopus:

    it just sounds like people just don’t know how to play Germany….and Japan for that matter.

    And lastly i reckon your about right on that one… cause this was the turning point in our games… The last game where we didn’t see the imbalance in the game against the germans… we just saw the 9 tanks / 6 fighters on the european mainland and were all to happy to play germany casue it was stacked a helluva lot better than the older version of axis and allies, But you have a longer supply route to russia for both japan and germany… and a more formidable russia if played correctly… oh dear. all she really needs is just a little help on the germans back side and she can break them …


  • My apologies Patton, I wasn’t trying to insult anyone, but now that I look at my text, I can see how it might offend.

    I believe you are correct in your assessment of Germany in seeing how powerful it is.  Not only does Germany get an additional fighter to start, it is located in a place that cannot be taken on the first turn (as the Ukraine is in the old version of Axis).  To me, it is really starting with 2 extra fighters.  The additional monies for Germany (starting at 40) also means I don’t have to take Africa to be competitive with England and Russia.  Their monies are the exact same as the old game.  While you may see the road to Moscow as a long one, I see the road to Berlin for them as even longer.

    Shift the thinking.  Do not think of Germany as the aggressor as most would think it would be with all the armor units.  Think of Germany as a Fortress that is under siege from the start.  Play Germany as many would think they would play Russia (on the defensive from beginning).  Absorb the impact, and when it is time to exhale, you take a step toward Russia.  This works for this game and the original Axis and Allies.


  • @Octopus:

    Not only does Germany get an additional fighter to start, it is located in a place that cannot be taken on the first turn (as the Ukraine is in the old version of Axis).  To me, it is really starting with 2 extra fighters.

    How is it that ukraine cannot be taken on the first turn? You can believe it is a good or bad move, but attacking it with 3 inf, 1 art, 2 arm, 2 ftr’s yiels a roughly 90% chance of taking it, which is pretty substantial.

    @Octopus:

    This works for this game and the original Axis and Allies.

    Yeah, you definitely got the original axis and allies licked. Definitely not imbalanced at all. In fact, I would go out on a limb and say that all experienced players are incorrect saying this, and are incredibly poor strategists.

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