Thanks so much for the input everyone.
Alpha 3 vs Alpha 2 Axis Bid Differential Poll
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Know, I couldnt remember if it went to +20 or +15 etc, so instead of saying something like +30 (because I was too lazy to make sure where it cut off) I used 80 billion which was so ridiculous and crazy no one could possibly think I literally meant 80 billion.
Guess there will always be at least one person (or three) that will refuse to acknowledge the point and pick at the little details.
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@Cmdr:
Garg, you know it was just an example meant to be ridiculous enough to demonstrate a point.
Still, you could have outliers in this poll. (1 vote for -15 would drag down 6 or seven votes for +2). If you only had 5 options, it would be a lot harder to get outliers.
Jimmy makes other points.
And I can say, if the bid needs +15 as many are claiming, then DAMN that’s +20-30 IPC bids! Most of the trounament games are coming in with either 0 or + a lot. (I’d give actual numbers but I still need 10 bids and I don’t want to influence them. You can PM me, and if you are not in the tournament, I’ll be glad to give you the average number of IPC actually bid (not what someone said they would bid) for Alpha 2 and you can do the math. Needless to say, many of the bids reported here are the equivalent of doubling the Italian fleet and I think that’s a bit ridiculous. Perhaps many who voted +15 did not understand they need to subtract what they bid in Alpha 2?
My bid for Alpha 3 would be 21 (9 + 12 answered on this survey).
With 21 worth of IPC, I would feel like Axis and Allies are even at Alpha 3 right now. Bids of 6 IPC hardly make a difference (e.g., 1 sub to get that cruiser in 91, 50% of the time, what is this good for?)
21 IPC is hardly anything on a board of this size, (although position matters)!
To avoid outliers is precisely why I stopped the option at 15, forcing people to think about it, rather than expressing frustration. The distribution of results is well spread out, I have to say I was right on when choosing the answer choices.
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1 Submarine makes it so you can have 2 submarines in SZ 106, SZ 110 and SZ 111.
I used to bid 2 submarines, so I had one for the cruiser in SZ 91, but given the changes to the game, I no longer need 7 submarines, 6 is plenty. It really feels a lot more balanced now, at least in the 4 games I’ve completed and 3 games I am currently engaged in online.
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@Cmdr:
1 Submarine makes it so you can have 2 submarines in SZ 106, SZ 110 and SZ 111.
I used to bid 2 submarines, so I had one for the cruiser in SZ 91, but given the changes to the game, I no longer need 7 submarines, 6 is plenty. It really feels a lot more balanced now, at least in the 4 games I’ve completed and 3 games I am currently engaged in online.
I think I ought to review those threads and see what you are doing (and verify that all moves are legal). A sixth submarine helps, but it’s really just an insurance policy for 110 of some sort. Not a game changer on a gigantic map like this.
At the slightest Axis mistake, my feeling is that they become in trouble. The allies can make some mistakes on the other hand, it appears.
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@Cmdr:
1 Submarine makes it so you can have 2 submarines in SZ 106, SZ 110 and SZ 111.
I used to bid 2 submarines, so I had one for the cruiser in SZ 91, but given the changes to the game, I no longer need 7 submarines, 6 is plenty. It really feels a lot more balanced now, at least in the 4 games I’ve completed and 3 games I am currently engaged in online.
I think I ought to review those threads and see what you are doing (and verify that all moves are legal). A sixth submarine helps, but it’s really just an insurance policy for 110 of some sort. Not a game changer on a gigantic map like this.
At the slightest Axis mistake, my feeling is that they become in trouble. The allies can make some mistakes on the other hand, it appears.
I dont think Alpha 2 or Alpha 3 need “game changers” to balance them out. OOB I would say that the allies needed 80+ IPC for me to feel comfortable taking them (all of it British), but then, I have paranoias about OOB rules.
Alpha 2 a submarine shot at the cruiser in SZ 91 was always nice, even if it failed, it was a bid unit and the second submarine made SZ 106 almost feel like it’d never fail.
Alpha 3, since you dont need to fret about England anymore (its a null personality in the game for the first, oh, 7 rounds at least) you dont need the shot at the Cruiser in SZ 91, but you do still want that destroyer in SZ 106, so the second one helps. With no bid, I give up shooting at both battleships so I can crush both destroyers, with a bid of one submarine I’ll try for one of the battleships. It’s more a security blanket. Honestly, as far as this game is, Alpha 3 is the most balanced to come out yet.
It is my personal opinion all these ridiculously high bids are knee-jerk reactions to not have Sea Lion be virtually guarenteed like it was in Alpha 2. Despite the fact that Russia is SOO much easier to take out now. (6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 2 Armor, AA Gun in two or three stacks and Russia has no recourse but to retreat allowing you to enter it faster.) So you activate Mongolia if you attack Amur. Whoopity do dah. +6 Infantry for Russia. And your point is what, exactly? France has an AA Gun? Everyone stop the presses, you mean A MAJOR EUROPEAN CITY HAS SOME AIR DEFENSE!?!?! Let’s ignore the historical aspects for a moment, you dont NEED aircraft to take France! You probably shouldn’t even use aircraft to take France. The only way I could see it being needed is if you are being greedy and/or trying for Sea Lion anyway, despite the fact that 2 submarines negate England and you have no objectives there anymore anyway. If you look at history, I’m sure SOMEONE in France had an old WWI AA Gun. Maybe that one guy got lucky and shot down a plane (that shouldnt have been there in the first place, if you ask me.) Japan, uh, well, you have a lot more AA Guns there too. Put yourself in India’s shoes. You can hit a stack of 7 infantry, 2 artillery and an Armor and probably win, but dang, there’s an AA Gun there, do you want to risk your fighters and tactical bomber? Russia, do you want to attack Japan and give up any treaty defense?
I am not going to say the game is balanced, but I am going to say that the axis were severely beefed up. Yes, the allies got more units, technically, but they are in bad places. 4 Guns in England? What are they going to do but fire off fireworks? 4 Guns on the Continental United States? Really? I guess they look cute and all, those funny white pieces (mine are white, deal with it) but will they impact the game? Not in the least. The Russian guns, the German guns, teh Italian guns, the Japanese guns and the Indian guns are going to have an impact and if you’ll notice that’s only 1.5 allied countries getting more units compared to 3 axis countries getting them. +4 Guns Allies, +7 Axis (not counting france, that gun is as useless as a screendoor on a submarine).
Sorry, had to vent. All this crying about Sea Lion being a little bit (emphasis on the little) is really irritating me now. The game is not 15 IPC out of balance, it is not 30 IPC out of balance. If anything, another submarine is NICE, not NEEDED. IMHO.
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Lots of contradictory statements here, maybe you should do like me and go get some sleep.
Why is Russia easier to take now? Because it gets 12 shots at planes in the final battle instead of unlimited shots?!
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I detailed why Russia was easier to take now. Because Germany can put larger stacks of units on the front lines with all those extra AA Guns. Russia will now have to armor to “trade” with the Germans. Perhaps not to the degree I detailed, but to some degree.
For instance:
Germany has 5 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, AA Gun in Baltic States, N. Ukraine and S. Ukraine. Russia only has 3 planes and no matter where they go, they are at risk of AA Gun Fire. Germany might be in the same boat, but can better afford lost planes.
Before, you only had 1 maybe you had a second AA Gun on the front lines, but you kept it back with your main force for later, when you wanted to stack next to the enemy. Now you have 6 guns, you can easily lose 5 guns to the enemy, especially if it means they have to send armored units into your range.
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Voting is closed, the median additional bid is 8 IPC.
Several votes at zero showed up last week (after Kreigund came on the forum and answered some questions). Interesting coincidence since we did not have any vote at zero in the first 3-4 days of voting.
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Voting is closed, the median additional bid is 8 IPC.
Several votes at zero showed up last week (after Kreigund came on the forum and answered some questions). Interesting coincidence since we did not have any vote at zero in the first 3-4 days of voting.
I voted 0 when I first saw the poll, which was at most a day after it was posted.
He must be a personal friend of Osama Bin Laden’s Family, and a member of the Republican party. I bet he even buys groceries at Wal-Mart.
What does this all mean?
YOU KNOW HE IS AGAINST YOU, ANDYOUR POLL!
And what good can come of that post?
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Come on…. you didn’t have to Ru-an-ek
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Voting is closed, the median additional bid is 8 IPC.
Several votes at zero showed up last week (after Kreigund came on the forum and answered some questions). Interesting coincidence since we did not have any vote at zero in the first 3-4 days of voting.
Shouldnt be much of a surprise, 3-4 days would have given a number of people time to have a few games go in a few rounds to determine that the change in their normal bid from Alpha 2 to Alpha 3 would be zero. What they needed before, they need now. It was, specifically stated, a poll on how much MORE you needed in Alpha 3 than you did in Alpha 2, not what your full Alpha 3 bid was. So if you wanted 5 infantry for Japan in Alpha 2 and you want 5 infantry for Japan in alpha 3, then your vote should have been zero.
Honestly, I still feel that A3 is more balanced than A2 with significant increases for the axis and only mild increases for the allies.
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@Cmdr:
Honestly, I still feel that A3 is more balanced than A2 with significant increases for the axis and only mild increases for the allies.
what is this I don’t even
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Poll isn’t closed. Bid is zero. Just play, for f’s sake. Try ten games with experienced, varied opponents, and base your ideas on fact, not your personal agenda.
I can tell that’s hard for certain people, but at some point in life, it’s nice to grow up and recognize there are other people in the world. It can be liberating to find, that sometimes they have valid opinions. Sometimes, they’re even right when you’re not… wow! Isn’t that amazing?
Personally, I recognize that I have no idea, and don’t have the answer. Isn’t that refreshing to hear?
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Dont NEED a submarine to balance it, but if people are going to bid ridiculously high for the Axis, it doesn’t hurt to take a submarine and make it a little easier to win, right Stalinski?
I’ve seen some really whacked out bids in the tournament so far. Some are as high as 30 IPCs to take the axis. Most are coming in at about 6-9 IPC for units in Tobruk or a bonus submarine. I’d wager that a tourney using A3 rules would see that drop to 3-4 IPC for an additional unit in Tobruk ONLY. Or even go negative removing some of the extra AA Guns to balance things out.
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Jennifer - I’d love to have an extra German Sub to start the game, yes - but I’m not sold that the Axis needs a bid, yet. Over time, playtesting will let us know.
It’s good to hear that 3-4 IPCs is where things are at right now. That feels like a pretty balanced game to me. The Axis are supposed to be swimming upstream, a little bit. The onus should always lie with the Axis to make or break an attempt at world domination. Myself, I like that challenge of knowing it’ll be hard, and maybe, just a little, the deck is stacked against you. Makes winning sweeter.
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An extra submarine, if my opponent is foolish enough to give it to me, is always welcome!
The tournament bids are averaging out to 6-9 IPCs for Alpha 2. That’s relatively miniscule given the size and scope of the game.
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