Peacetime Income Increases via D6+3 Instead of D12

  • Banned

    @general-5-stars
    Would fixing the number script it a bit too much? It is also a way to go, but the excitement of waiting for that last roll to make it early or not or a turn late is missing then.

  • '20 '16

    More random peacetime increases equals less scripting, and more game to game variance. I like it just as it is, personally.


  • Seems most like the random roll is what most want. I’m all for randomness

  • Banned

    @general-5-stars
    The game is packed with randomness. Almost no scripting, except wartime economy 😎


  • First, I want to thank everyone for a fantastic discussion thus far!

    Let me lay out some math and some hypothetical scenarios:
    Let’s posit that Japan will declare war on China and Germany will declare war on France, giving +5 to USA for both actions. USA starts at 6, so this puts us up to 16. Let’s also hypothesize Japan declaring war on the Netherlands on turn 5. It could be sooner, or perhaps a turn later, but for the sake of a general game, let’s assume turn 5. This 2D12 roll is the most important roll of the game and if you leave it purely to luck, it will have an outsized impact on any other roll.

    Let’s say USA rolls perfectly average for this 2D12 peacetime income increase for the Japanese invasion of the Money Islands, and gets a 13.
    5588204d-13e9-42c1-8085-1beadcec9884-image.png

    Now, let’s say USA gets just as lucky as Fighting Irish got in Operation Live and Let Die, rolling a 22 upon the invasion of the Money Islands. How would that affect Total USA income?
    0aa38ea1-0c89-445a-b7a2-8eaf2b72d996-image.png

    But even more devastating is the impact of bad luck, like Mad Man Dan got in Operation No Time to Die. Let’s say someone rolls a 4 (the inverse of a 22) for the USA’s peacetime income increase for the hypothetical Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies on turn 5:
    5a5b9481-a7c4-4919-8ed4-e577ba9f6578-image.png

    The difference between good luck and bad luck on just this 2D12 for the Money Islands could be 481-359.5 = 121.5 IPP. That’s just bad or good luck on this one particular 2D12. And note that I didn’t use the worst/best luck. I just used what Fighting Irish rolled as the template. It could have been two better (24) or two worse (2) which would have lead to an even more obscene result.

    What I am trying to explain to people is allowing the range of 11 (1-12) on D12’s for peacetime increases is basically saying, “I’m fine with giving or taking away 120 IPP’s to/from USA. Leaving the game to luck is fun for me!” Also, the luck in this single roll affects the turn of entry for USA into the war by 3 turns. Why would people want this? Why would it be fun to have your game so dramatically impacted by the luck of USA peacetime income increases?

    Please note that I’m not trying to script the USA peacetime income increases. I’m not saying to change from a D12 to a non-random number. I’m saying we decrease the range of the random number from 11 (1-12) to 5 (1-6). The average result stays the same.

    Thanks for reading my long diatribe and I really appreciate the discussion!


  • @hbg-gw-enthusiast
    Hmm I think you have convinced me, nicely done!

  • Banned

    The range is from 12 to 6 (not 11 to 5).
    Sure it works well like this. Some people may want to play with less luck. Others want more randomness. Give the US player the choice which system he or she wants to use.


  • This post is deleted!

  • @delaja said in Peacetime Income Increases via D6+3 Instead of D12:

    The range is from 12 to 6 (not 11 to 5).
    Sure it works well like this. Some people may want to play with less luck. Others want more randomness. Give the US player the choice which system he or she wants to use.

    In mathematics, the definition of range is the difference between the highest and lowest possible values, and is a measure of dispersion. https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/range-statistics-.html

    The high value is 12. The low value is 1. The difference is 11. And you can see the difference between 6 and 1 is 5. One way to find the average of a particular sided die is to take all the possible values (1+2+3+4+5+6=21) and then divide by the number of sides (21/6=3.5). But another possible way when the probability of each side is equal, is to take the range/2 and add that to the minimum value. So the average of a D6 is 5/2 + 1 = 3.5. The average of a D12 is 11/2 + 1 = 6.5.


  • @delaja said in Peacetime Income Increases via D6+3 Instead of D12:

    Sure it works well like this. Some people may want to play with less luck. Others want more randomness. Give the US player the choice which system he or she wants to use.

    The interesting thing is the peacetime income increases become less and less impactful the later they are. A compromise position might be to do D6+3 for rolls before 1941, then go back to D12’s after that if people like the excitement.

  • Banned

    @hbg-gw-enthusiast
    😀 back to school

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