AARHE: Phase 2: Technology


  • each bomb is gonna be expensive

    its probably NOT gonna be like the original destroy all military in the whole territory
    thats not realistic
    its gonna destroy some military but more importantly reduce IPC and VCP

    cool actually getting the technology probably make all neutral join your team

    +++++It will be very expensive the make an A-bomb in the war we had three and used one to test to make sure it worked. After the last two were used it would take 6 more months to get 2 more. When i say expensive what i mean is we should impose a “build schedule” of say 2 turns for one bomb or one bomb per turn.

    It should only be possible to be dropped by heavy bombers which is itself a tech development.

    Lastly, the bomb permanently reduces the land value of the territory.THe other way to go is to allow it to be dropped on armies forcing them to make a saving roll to survive.


  • yeah since it takes 2 turns to build battleship carrier and cruiser now it should also take 2 turns to build atomic bomb

    I see you also agree with permanently reduced IPC value

    what about VCP? (population)

    and for damage you have to understand they are not all in the particular city you are a-bombing
    so I am thinking only a proportion of all land units in the territory can be hurt

    what do you think about surface to air missiles hitting jet planes?


  • surface to air is not for this game. Its too experimental and small scale.

    reducing population VCP could be possible but consider:

    1. even getting the A bomb will be very hard… you would get the thing when the game was pretty much decided

    2. The added complexity of alot of special rules for this will gain how much? Also having such a rule with the very limited nature of these weapons… does reducing the VCP in these cases really make any difference?

    3. If say dropping the bomb reduces the VCP by one point work? 100,000 dead is the basic effect of the bomb.

  • Moderator

    I would say the power of the bomb is the ability to destroy IC’s… and Maybe 2 Infantry… OR cripple IC Production for a turn… That would be devestating…

    GG


  • Atomic Bomb:
    Available to any player with both A-Bomb Technologyand and  heavy bomber capability. Only two such weapons of this class are allowed to be dropped and they can only be dropped in original Axis home territories. For the first weapon, roll two D6 sided dice results in permanent loss of IP in attacked territory. The second such weapon allows you to roll three D6. The damage results in permenant IPC damage to your economy. If the target is against enemy ground units then the die result is number of destroyed units. This weapon cannot be dropped in sea zones. Each additional weapon of this type are available every two turns.


  • even getting the A bomb will be very hard… you would get the thing when the game was pretty much decided

    yeah a-bomb would be hard to get but I duno about game decided
    its certainly long into the game but we shouldn’t assume that

    in the case where both axis and allies got the a-bomb do we make the game a draw/peace (win or lose according to national victory conditions) or do we let them have nuclear warfare???

    permanent reduction of IPC income already reduce production capacity implicitly due to our limit of 4X IPC can be spent in an IC in a territory with X IPC income.

    two D6 dice would average 7 IPC and 7 units destroyed???
    that seems a little high to me


  • surface to air is not for this game. Its too experimental and small scale.

    Yeah wiki says none of Germany’s SAMs were used operationally lol.


  • Ok so “Heavy Tanks” replaces surface to air missiles.
    To move along I’ll start drafting numbers on the revised list.

    Technology Difficulty: Boxes

    Air:
    3 Jet Planes (AARHE values)
    2 Long Range Aircraft (OOB)
    2 Heavy Bombers (OOB)

    Land:
    2 Rockets (OOB but new economic damage restriction)
    2 Heavy Artillery (5 IPC, 3/2, cross territroy bombardment)
    3 Heavy Tanks (8 IPC, 4/3, takes 2 hits)

    Sea:
    2 Super Submarines (SS 3/3, -1 modifier ASW search roll)
    2 Advanced ASW (+1 modifier ASW search roll, +1 modifier ASW attack roll, planes perform ASW but without +1 modifier)

    Other:
    8 Atomic Bomb
    2 Advanced Radar (+1 modifier Antiaircraft search roll)

    Economic:
    2 Underground Factories (No income interruption from combat, “Income interrupt” amount immune to SBR)
    3 Advanced Production (FTR SS AP -1; DD CA BMR -2; CV BB -3)

    Pre-war Research

    Germany: 1 Jet Plane, 1 Rocket, 1 Atomic Bomb
    Japan: none
    USSR: none
    UK: 1 Radar
    US: 1 Heavy Bomber, 2 Atomic Bomb

    Research capacity

    Dice cost 5 IPC.

    USSR  2 free + 1 purchasable
    UK 2 free + 2 purchasable
    USA 6 free + 4 purchasable

    Germany 4 free + 4 purchasable
    Japan 2 free + 2 purchasable
    Italy 2 free + 1 purchasable


  • Reality check:

    USA Tech push and Atomic Bomb all the way…
    10 dices per turn.
    They need 6 more boxes.
    On average 36 dices needed, they would get it by turn 4.
    But thats 20 IPC per turn on Tech.

    If they only use the free dices.
    6 dices per turn.
    They would get it by turn 6.

    If they is too fast we’ll reduce the research capacity.


  • yea but rather increase the boxes needed to get it.


  • Ok instead of 2, 3, and 8 boxes. Maybe more like 3, 4, and 10 boxes…
    Any other comments like the difficutly of minor techs or the actual techs?

    Air:
    4 Jet Planes (AARHE values)
    3 Long Range Aircraft (OOB)
    3 Heavy Bombers (OOB)

    Land:
    3 Rockets (OOB but new economic damage restriction)
    3 Heavy Artillery (5 IPC, 3/2, cross territroy bombardment)
    4 Heavy Tanks (8 IPC, 4/3, takes 2 hits)

    Sea:
    3 Super Submarines (SS 3/3, -1 modifier ASW search roll)
    3 Advanced ASW (+1 modifier ASW search roll, +1 modifier ASW attack roll, planes perform ASW but without +1 modifier)

    Other:
    10 Atomic Bomb
    3 Advanced Radar (+1 modifier Antiaircraft search roll)

    Economic:
    3 Underground Factories (No income interruption from combat, “Income interrupt” amount immune to SBR)
    4 Advanced Production (FTR SS AP -1; DD CA BMR -2; CV BB -3)

  • Moderator

    Is a turn still 3 months?

    The Manhattan project really took off on Oct. 9 1941, and didn’t produce operational bombs 'till July 16 1945… using the 3 month model we get 2 boxes checked off for the US (Fall and Winter of '41) and have an additional 15 boxes to go! That is dealing merely with time differentiation, but I think that should be considered and allow IPC’s to change how fast it takes… The real difference is in the speed you can go at… If there is no limits to the amount of boxes you can overcome then someone will just shove all there money into heavy bombers and then next turn bomb there enemy into submission (you get my gist) and it is just like AaA, just with boxes… Limit the amount of development to historical limits of what was known… For the Atom bomb maybe a max of 2 boxes per turn?

    GG


  • I think Imperious Leader last said 6 months.
    If 10 boxes for Atomic Bomb it’ll now take US average 8 turns with only free dices. Thats 4 years.

    A good point about limiting how many dices you can put on a particular technology each turn.
    Although only US or Germany has a good chance of getting a technology in one turn.
    All the other countries only get 3/4 dices per turn. Technologies are either 3/4 boxes.
    Overall its harder to get technologies I think.
    Maybe need to go back to 2/3 boxes for technologies.

    Remember you allocate your resources (dices) to technologies when you pay for them, beginning of the turn. You roll the dices end of the turn. Tech dices hit on 1 now.


  • I dont know wher it went but i proposed some change to abilities:

    Research capacity

    Dice cost 5 IPC.

    USSR  1 free + 2 purchasable
    UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
    USA 2 free + 4 purchasable

    Germany 2 free + 3 purchasable
    Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
    Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable


  • dont know wher it went but i proposed some change

    I was still tuning the proportions (research capacity vs. research boxes) hence I only took the approx. proportions of powers’ research capacity (eg. Germany vs. US) from your sugguestion

    I was wondering if it would be too hard to get techs. Thinking of reducing to 2/3 boxes for techs with a 3/4 dices research capacity for non-US/non-Germany powers.

    USSR  1 free + 2 purchasable
    UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
    USA 2 free + 4 purchasable

    Germany 2 free + 3 purchasable
    Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
    Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable

    So are you sugguesting those power vs. power proportions?
    Or are you sugguesting capacity vs. boxes proportions? (ie you think techs are too easy)

  • Moderator

    Assuming that the US on a turn it wants to go “techish” then it can on average mobilize 1 box… But in reality they could roll higher… I don’t disagree with that possibility, breakthroughs happen suddenly, but what about being committed to something… There is still that spur of the moment air to the whole tech situation… I would rather have newbies investing in technology that was long term (buy additional research, have to roll and pay for that many dice per turn) and see them get technology quick but no units then for my ally to go spur of the moment waste one turn on teching and realize “OK, that wasn’t a good idea…” In the long run they are more likely to get it, and I think that more accurately depicts what happened… Now if we need to lower the cost of die, then so be it… Possibly even reaching a point where they can exchange so many die for one free tech (little extra cash expended)…

    GG


  • Yeah. 1 box per turn.

    With the proportions again…

    USSR  1 free + 2 purchasable
    UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
    USA 2 free + 4 purchasable

    Germany 2 free + 3 purchasable
    Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
    Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable

    USSR and Japan are better than UK and Italy. Is that ok?

  • Moderator

    I assume your talking to Imp, not me… Under the standard rules that actually looks pretty good… USSR better then UK? I think you should reverse them

    GG


  • USSR is definatly better than UK! no question at all.

    They created their own Hydrogen bomb by 1949, They had more advanced tanks and artillery. UK only lead is in radar, and naval technology. Latter in the war the Soviet Il-3 and Yak- 3 was as good as a spitfire and the Yak- 17/23 etc were jet fighters only 1 year after UK. The Soviet military complex is close to the united states, while UK was basically an old man on the street corner. As victors they were fully weakened by the war.


  • Well everyone is encourged to give comments about reserach capactiy.

    So now US/Germany can get 1 tech approx. every 3 turns.
    The others can get 1 tech approx. every 6 turns.

    Thats not too slow?
    If so we’ll change it to 2/3 boxes rather than 3/4 boxes per tech currently.

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