Phase two ideas template: land and naval combat



  • @Imperious:

    Submarines travel at about 10 knots underwater and thats rounding up…

    Oh yeah. I forgot sumbarines are even slower than slow ships.
    But if they are travelling slowly underwater, we let battleships shoot at them and kill effectively anyway?

    Anyway your answer was indirect.
    Back to the question of how ASW fit into the combat cycle.

    Imagine 3 DD + 3 SS attack 3 DD. The defending DDs gets to perform more than the attacking DDs. Thats what I am getting at. Maybe DDs need to fight with -1 modifiers if it chooses perform ASW rolls. Screening however is free.

    Now each ship is either paired with a screening ship or left “en prise” for what comes next.

    Actually I think each DD/CA can screen one ship. But each surface ship can be screened by multiple DD/CA.
    Like a fleet of 3 DD + 1 CV…all DDs can protect the CV.

    if say 3 subs are paired on one ship and they all hit…consequently the ship sinks additional hits go against any ship that was screened out or are wasted… they cant go against other pairings of ships.

    Ok that I was expecting.
    We’ll reword the whole screening thing clearly later.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Imagine 3 DD + 3 SS attack 3 DD. The defending DDs gets to perform more than the attacking DDs. Thats what I am getting at. Maybe DDs need to fight with -1 modifiers if it chooses perform ASW rolls. Screening however is free.

    ++++++ OK in this example the subs and destroyers are attacking seperatly. The DD fire first and defending DD fire back… then you remove loses. Then the subs go in a strike ( not premtively)

    Quote
    Now each ship is either paired with a screening ship or left “en prise” for what comes next.
    Actually I think each DD/CA can screen one ship. But each surface ship can be screened by multiple DD/CA.
    Like a fleet of 3 DD + 1 CV…all DDs can protect the CV.

    ++++ that not anything different from these rules. Of course if you have 3 DD they all can screen and the sub has to cut into 3 DD before its gonna get a shot at the CV.

    Quote
    if say 3 subs are paired on one ship and they all hit…consequently the ship sinks additional hits go against any ship that was screened out or are wasted… they cant go against other pairings of ships.
    Ok that I was expecting.
    We’ll reword the whole screening thing clearly later.

    +++ ok



  • @Imperious:

    ++++++ OK in this example the subs and destroyers are attacking seperatly. The DD fire first and defending DD fire back… then you remove loses. Then the subs go in a strike ( not premtively)

    Firstly the subs don’t fire preemptively anymore? So instead of OOB’s rule of submarines still fire preemptively but casualities still get to shoot back because of destroyer presence….you changed it to submarines now fire after main firing cycle?

    Secondly, I was talking about realism not how it works in the proposed rule. Surely the defending destroyers have more to worry about than the attacking destroyers and can’t fight as well.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Firstly the subs don’t fire preemptively anymore? So instead of OOB’s rule of submarines still fire preemptively but casualities still get to shoot back because of destroyer presence….you changed it to submarines now fire after main firing cycle?

    ++++ subs only fire preemtive when a ship other than a DD or CA ( and sub) is not present as they have no ASW capability. this has not changed. In this case if you have a CA or DD then they fire back.

    Secondly, I was talking about realism not how it works in the proposed rule. Surely the defending destroyers have more to worry about than the attacking destroyers and can’t fight as well.

    +++ what would be better?



  • @Imperious:

    subs only fire preemtive when a ship other than a DD or CA ( and sub) is not present as they have no ASW capability. this has not changed. In this case if you have a CA or DD then they fire back.

    Thats not my interpertation of the OOB.
    I think SS always fire in opening-fire. Presence of DD only allows your casualties to stay and be removed later rather than in opening-fire.

    Secondly, I was talking about realism not how it works in the proposed rule. Surely the defending destroyers have more to worry about than the attacking destroyers and can’t fight as well.
    +++ what would be better?

    My quick solution, pulled out of thin air, is a -1 modifer for DDs wishing to perform ASW rolls. Screening, a relative passive job, however does not cause -1 modifier.
    FTR and BMB could also say get -1 modifier for wishing to perform ASW rolls.

    Its already generous when you think about it.

    If not then when 1 DD + 1 SS attacks 1 DD….the defending DD would basically get to shoot twice while the attacking ships shoot once each. A bit strange.

    1 DD provides early warning against submarine attack for whole fleet so casualties are not removed in opening-fire.
    Is that realistic?

    Air supremacy
    When only one side has air units, those air units fire preemptively.
              Land Combat                   Naval Combat
    FTR    opening-fire, selective?    opening-fire, selective?
    BMR   opening-fire?                   opening-fire?

    What about hit allocations?


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