@Caesar:
I’d rather do the dog fight rule, it makes a lot more sense.
Yes that’s what I meant by combat.
Air Supremacy
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I say that every land unit except a plane would D1 and A1 against a plane. I don’t think if you have planes and they don’t it would make your inf. attack better. My theory is that the only good defense against bombers and planes would be planes. Inf. and Tanks are just sitting ducks to fighter craft.
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This is how I Play.
Fighter vs Fighter- A3,D4
Fighter vs Tank- A3,D1
Fighter vs Art.- A3, D1
Fighter vs Inf.- A3, D1
Fighter vs Destroyer- A3, Anti-Air Roll 1
Fighter vs Battleship- A3, Anit-Air Roll 1 or 2
Fighter vs Carrier- A3, Anti-Air Roll 1 or 2 -
In AARHE, we last thought of…
Air units engage in dogfighting until one side has air supermacy.
Air unts attack in opening-fire when no enemy air units are present. FTR but not BMR gets a selective attack.My theory is that the only good defense against bombers and planes would be planes. Inf. and Tanks are just sitting ducks to fighter craft.
We came across a difficult situation trying to model “air units cannot take hits from land units”, or simply INF and ARM can’t kill FTR or BMR.
Should air units can able to attack forever? This opens up defender retreat.
(1 FTR attack 10 ARM)Should air units be forced to retreat after “land control” is lost?
(10 ARM attack 1 FTR)Should defending units be forced to retreat regardless? This opens up “final cycles” before air units are forced to retreat.
(1 INF attack 10 FTR)You are encouraged to join a 5 page discussion at http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6384.0 :-)
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…
We came across a difficult situation trying to model “air units cannot take hits from land units”, or simply INF and ARM can’t kill FTR or BMR.Should air units can able to attack forever? YES This opens up defender retreat.
(1 FTR attack 10 ARM)Should air units be forced to retreat after “land control” is lost? NO
(10 ARM attack 1 FTR)Should defending units be forced to retreat regardless? YES This opens up “final cycles” before air units are forced to retreat.
(1 INF attack 10 FTR)Keep it simple to speed up the game, no separate “dog fights” before combat! Maybe for the more advanced players, but then my suggestion is:
A dog fight always takes place in the opening fire step of combat, for the first cycle of combat only. Any hit scored in such a dog fight must be taken by a bomber or fighter, hence air units must be picked as casualties for a dog fight as long as enemy air units still excists. For the second or later cycle of combat fighters fire in opening fire step of combat as long as no enemy fighters are present. Otherwise still attack during the regular combat phase.
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Yeah thats much like where are we at, at the moment
Air units attack land units in opening fire.
Dogfighting is not a “separate” thing, air units engage in dogfighting and dogfighting only until air supermacy. -
Yes i second that… air fights air untill one side has so air and following that hits go against land forces as preemtives. Thats very simple.
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@Imperious:
Yes i second that… air fights air untill one side has so air and following that hits go against land forces as preemtives. Thats very simple.
One need to think more than once before engage an enemy force of figthers and how to protect those bombers. By your rule fighters will be a very important unit, maybe too important and hence become a game breaker. However I will try it in my next game. Another variant would be what I suggested before, air-to-air combat for the first cycle of combat were only air units may be taken as casualies. If no side has got air supremacy after the first cycle of combat, the fighters attack as normal. If air supremacy then fighters attack/defend during opening fire step of combat!
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Who voted #1 and why?
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@B.:
Another variant would be what I suggested before, air-to-air combat for the first cycle of combat were only air units may be taken as casualies. If no side has got air supremacy after the first cycle of combat, the fighters attack as normal. If air supremacy then fighters attack/defend during opening fire step of combat!
No dogfighting only for first cycle of combat? Can land units hit air units?
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No dogfighting only for first cycle of combat? Can land units hit air units?
What I mean is a kind of opening fire step for air units and AA-guns only. Hence no land units can hit air in this dog fight, except for AA-guns. But this air only hit air is for the first cycle of combat only, there after air hit normally if enemy fighters still remain in the combat. Otherwise fighters hit in the opening fire step of combat for the rest cycles of that combat.
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so on the second combat round if both sides have fighters then fighter hits are allocated to land forces in the usual fashion?
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@Imperious:
so on the second combat round if both sides have fighters then fighter hits are allocated to land forces in the usual fashion?
Yes! However I like your suggestion were air units always fire in the opening fire step of combat and any hits should be taken by enemy air units prior land or naval units. I have tried it once and it makes air really powerful, but still verry expensive!
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What about this variant?
#3 Air Supremacy
Fighters and bombers always attack or defend in the opening fire step of combat. Any hit from a fighter or bomber should be taken by enemy air units prior land or naval units.
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yeah #3 is better than #2 and #1
its also what we are using in AARHE rules -
anderson its been like 2 months? read the current draft under Tekkys name for the rules.
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Uhm, how about Air Supremacy:
Defending fighters fire in the opening fire phase of combat and then may choose to retreat or remain for normal combat (giving them a second chance to fire in the first round.) Choice has to be made in the first round.
Justification: Are infantry or armor or artillery actually gunna STOP a fighter from running away? Common. Seriously guys…other then an enemy fighter, who can keep up with a yellow bellied zoommie running home to mommy???
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Common. Seriously guys…other then an enemy fighter, who can keep up with a yellow bellied zoommie running home to mommy???
yeah we made it so only air units can kill air units in land combat
so it doesn’t matter
enemy land units won’t hurt your fightershowever what you said bring up a strategic redeployment aspect in my mind from DAS (defensive air support)
the rule lets fighters defend in its own territories or alternative in an adjacent friendly territoryI would clarify it further to:
you may alternatively “defend” in an adjacent friendly territory X, even if X is not being attacked -
Since I wrote this topic the first time many things have happened. However I have now used this rule for about five years since I invented the idea in this forum. Now I am interested in if anybody use the house rule “Air supremacy” and how you play it. My way to play it is:
Air Supremacy
Fighters attack or defend in the opening fire step of combat if no enemy fighters are present or remain in combat. -
Personally I’m kicking around the idea that in general ground combat all hits by fighters must be assigned to enemy fighters.
Excess hits can be assigned elsewhere and are not wasted.
Once the skies are cleared of enemy fighters then fighter kills can go to ground targets. It might be harsh but that’s the fighter jock’s job…. unless your house rules have a specialized ground-attack fighter.
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Mr Andersson:
Is this the Game Master i presume?
Co-contributor of AARHE?
Also, IN AARHE thats what we do. Plane hits go on planes till one side no longer has planes ( fighting at dogfight values) , then hits go against land targets and land hits cant go against planes. However, some restrictions of ratios of land units and planes are also presented.
For example you can do that thing where 6 planes and 2 infantry go in and kill a bunch of stuff, knowing the planes wont be hit. Thats like sending in a division to fight an army, supported with 10,000 fighters…which is silly.
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