I have played something like 80 games face to face and 7 on Triple A
I have lost russia turn 5 for the last 4 games in a row….
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Here’s my take on it, but I play weird and not always well. :-)
First, if he is using his airforce on the UK fleet G1, that means he is going into France with land units that are out of position to enter soviet territory before G3. If he wants to attack you G2 it will be a weak attack. My response to that is to build 6 tanks in Leningrad and Ukraine and put everything in range to strafe East Poland if he dares to march his flimsy stack in there G2. Your threat of that counterattack just bought you a turn. The earliest he can attack Moscow is now G6. You did spend money on those tanks instead of infantry, but you get another turn’s worth of infantry to build later, and the mobility of those tanks may give you options if opportunity presents itself. If you can hold out until R6 and R7 when the far east troops get to Moscow its going to get hard for him.
Second, don’t just pull everything back to Moscow without considering the likely outcome if he were to attack you at each step. Giving up territory is giving up time, and time is infantry. Only take a step back if he would not be able to take you down without unacceptable losses on his side (this may be where your allied fighters are useful, and where him sending the luftwaffe on escapades elsewhere may cost him). If killing your infantry at Bryansk would mean digging into his artillery and armour to do it, then stand your ground. If not, then turtle and pray.
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Hi all, thanks for all the replies…I played again this monday and got rolled again on turn 5…
I was attacked on turn 2. I pulled every possible infantry back i could. He moved is stack of 11 infantry to east poland turn 1 bought 5 tanks. He lost 1 fighter in the atlantic sinking all my ships but left 110 alone.
My new? is I have heard people saying the u.s. can land in w. germany to disrupt…we are talking about turn 5 correct? because u.s. cant attack germany until turn 4 right?, or at least launch from washington towards germany on turn 4. what I do with the u.s. is turn 4 put fleet with 8-10 loaded transports to gibraltar. turn 5 i can hit pretty much anything i want, italy,normandy,denmark,holland,w.germ,norway… I usually go for w. germany.
Germany’s build on turn 5 is all inf that are placed on germ and w.germ to repel the us attack. I usually cant get a uk fleet going until the us is parked by england to protect them.
Back to moscow…It fell again turn 5, I had 12 allied planes defending and i hit with 2 aa shots which was nice…He took russia with 2 bombers,2 fighters and 6 tanks left…
then immediately turned it all around back to germany…meantime he is now getting 80 plus ipc’s a turn. not much I can do even if i take w.germany with the u.s.
Also i cant build any navy with the u.k. because he leaves all his luftwaffe in w .germany until turn 4, then he moves them over to attack russia turn 5…
Also i would say i lose about 6-8 original russian infantry who cant retreat back fast enough from the tanks…
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What is your opponent doing with Japan? You said that USA can’t have ships leave the eastern seaboard until round 4, which is true if Japan hasn’t attacked the allies, or if UK/ANZAC provoked them first. Usually USA is too tied up building subs and destroyers for the Pacific for the first few rounds anyway, but it should be possible to put something in the Atlantic by that time.
Also, what’s the situation in Egypt? Usually if Germany goes for a fast Moscow kill G5 or G6, they expend so much doing it that Cairo becomes very hard to get, simply because Germany doesn’t have enough production capacity nearby (i.e. all the Eastern front ICs are minors and can’t be upgraded), and its easy for USA to fly fighters in to reinforce the UK infantry, south African mechs, and units that evacuated from India.
You might even look into the possibility of evacuating Moscow when death is inevitable and marching the whole lot down to Caucasus or North Persia to join up with the Brits. That takes some timing but you might stop them from winning on the Europe side right there, and in the meantime USA should have Japan out of contention on the Pacific side. After that USA can focus on Europe. The allies can eventually win that way, but you are looking at a 20+ round kind of game though.
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Build more infantry and less tanks.
Also - A dirty trick to try and pull off, would be to allow your opponent to seperate his planes from his ground unit stack when they move up. (Unless he’s using Italy for some extra coverage).
If you can strafe just his ground force, with all of your ground force, for a turn or two, then retreat, sometimes that can get a few extra units your way.
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(…)My new? is I have heard people saying the u.s. can land in w. germany to disrupt…we are talking about turn 5 correct? because u.s. cant attack germany until turn 4 right?(…)
Depends on what happened in the Pacific (assuming Adolf will not DOW the USA…). USA could be in the war Turn 1 already.
(…)I was attacked on turn 2 (…). I would say i lose about 6-8 original russian infantry who cant retreat back fast enough from the tanks (…).
Only if Germany attacks GE1 you cannot prevent loosing Russian INF (obviously). If Germany attacks GE2, then the only units in danger are those in Vyborg and Karelia.
As far as retreating goes, retreat them via Leningrad (RU1)->Archangelsk->Vologda->Moskou (RU4).
Keep a big Red Army stack next to them, to destroy any german ARM+MECH that came to kill this small northern army. Remember, killing German ARM+MECH while loosing INF/ART is in your advantage.Most importantly; if you do not have to retreat, then do not! This requires some calculation, but so be it. Reread JDOW’s post.
If counterattacking/making a stand is a bridge too far for whatever reason, then just defend Moskou.
I understand that your Americans made Germany produce nothing that could threaten Russia from GE4 and on. Excellent. This means that Germany will have between 74 and 81 units total that can attack Moskou GE5, assuming the Luftwaffe is still 100% intact. Apart from the fact that Germany (Normandy/Southern France/Paris/West Germany/Berlin/Italy) is now very vulnerable to the Americans/UK due to heavy focus on Russia, we just look to the East Front.If border wars did happen (meaning you counterattacked), Germany will have fewer units and so does Russia but to the Russian advantage because the Red Army will have gained another production round in this case Germans attacking Moskou GE6 instead. Just make sure German/Russian losses are roughly equal. No suicide attacks.
Without any border wars, Germany can have 74-81 units (depending on the ARM/MECH balance in their production) to attack Moskou GE5, maximum.
Russia can/should have anywhere between 81-89 units to defend Moskou, all by itself so without any RAF or Siberians. This is assuming Germany did not sacrifice some of their ARM/MECH for your INF and no border wars happend on your western borders first few turns. Just a plain and simple Russian retreat.Now, assuming normal/average luck on the dice for both sides, the best Germany can get out of this (81units against 81units) is a pyrrhic victory, winning Moskou but loosing all his forces except for 1 ARM and 2 or 3 aircraft. A pyrrhic victory in Moskou means the game is lost to the axis, most of the time. Especially with the serious American threat you had built up in the Atlantic.
BUT… Stalin can call his ‘friend’ Churchill for help as well. Sending just 6FTR from the RAF will be the death of even this Pyrrhic victory for Germany. More RAF can be sent if necessary (mainly to ridicule any German/Japanese STR bombing Moskou during the German approach).
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I just completed an attack last night of Germany taking Moscow. It was HUGE!
Germany = 53 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 14 Halftracks, 16 Tanks, 2 Fighters, 1 Tactical bomber and 7 Bombers. TOTAL = 103 units
Russia = 4 AA guns, 82 Infantry, 6 Artillery, 2 Halftracks, 2 Tanks, 2 Fighters and 1 Tactical bomber. TOTAL = 99 units
I got very lucky as Germany when Russian AA didn’t hit a single plane.
The battle took several rounds of combat as you might guess. Germany ended up winning with 8 Tanks, 2 Fighters, 1 Tactical bomber and 7 Bombers.
Russia would have had 4 fighters, but during an earlier SBR by Germany, the German bombers took out 2 of them.
I know Germany lost a lot of units, but since there was nothing else to threaten them from this direction (All Russian units were dead and the UK were under siege in India) and Germany managed to keep enough to fend off the Western Allies, I think it was still a good win. -
Poor Iceage…
He wants to know how to finally defeat Germany and you provide him with yet another German win.
Shame on you, sir ;-)Well done! Trying to stay on topic, may I ask what turn we are speaking of?
Judging by the number and type of Germans I guess this must have happened GE8 earliest.Maybe you can try to explain what you think Russia/the Allies did wrong in your game and/or what they could have done to prevent the fall of Moskou/their loss?
After all, the Axis players themselves often know best how their plans can be hindered (having inside information about their plans), whereas the allies have to guess.
I know I do. When I’m playing Axis against a strong allied side I Always end up thinking: “If only they [Allies] will NOT do this or that, my win is secure but damn if they do it I am screwed!”Last time I played Axis I won because Germany could take India (Moscow really was too fortified) while Japan was firmly in control of Hawai.
All because the USA had neglected the Pacific too much. Had the USA been stronger there, I would have lost the game with THE German army in India/middle east, Russia + Wallies at the gates of Berlin and USA/ANZAC firmly in control of Hawai and Sydney. -
This last week
We had a group of guys 2v2 I took my partner and said were gonna go for the cheesest win in AA history.
Germany didn’t do Barbarossa till round 3 first round buy was 3 tanks 1 art and destroyer and second since I had 68 Ipcs I bought 22 Infantry and roud 3 with 49 I got 8 tanks and pushed which helped cause I wanted to make sure of no Russian counter.
Now this is the cheesy part with Japan the first 2 rounds I got 2 small Industrial complexes and took all 3 transports and ferried over as many troops I can for Round 2 push two push into Russia the rest as Japan went as usual cut the berms road push into china a little but the main point was not to go to war with England and America for 3 rounds. It didn’t become apparent America and England until round 3 what I was doing and by then it was to late. I consolidated all my troops in Japan got an airfield for Korea. And kept pushing into Russia hard needless to say.
Russia fell. I think round 7 and Japan was at the Russian door absolutly cut them in half and while Japan on the pacific didn’t accomplish all it’s objectives it dosnt matter when Germany has the bulk of its army left to push into Calcuta or else where.
Like I said cheesy but it was effective keeping America out of the game till round 4. By then it’s just to late.
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Well done! Trying to stay on topic, may I ask what turn we are speaking of?
Judging by the number and type of Germans I guess this must have happened GE8 earliest.Maybe you can try to explain what you think Russia/the Allies did wrong in your game and/or what they could have done to prevent the fall of Moskou/their loss?
Actually, it was round 9.
Yeah, I can pretty much tell what the Allies did wrong in this game.
RUSSIA - They did a total withdraw to Moscow with absolutely no counterattacks at all. So when the German Army got to Moscow, it was totally intact and it cost Germany nothing to gobble up all the Russian territory plus the small factories. Germany was able to just keep building up more men and equipment. I think our Russian player wanted to see how big a stack of men they could end up with. They had a lot of stuff they could have attacked with and possibly slowed the Germans down some. I have found in most games if Russia does at least some offensive action, not a lot but some, they can slow the Germans enough to delay or even prevent the fall of Moscow. Also, losing those 2 fighters as interceptors was a waste. I rarely use my fighters as interceptors unless I outnumber the bombers/escorts.
UNITED STATES - Spent too much time dicking around with Japan and was not bold enough. While the US was still neutral, he had plans to go into Europe and made purchases accordingly. However, once the US got into the war, he suddenly decided to square off against the Japanese Navy which was mostly building up in SZ 6. The US kept building a fleet in SZ 26 while Japan kept adding ships to it’s fleet. Both fleets got bigger and bigger but just sat there and stared at each other. While the US fleet was a little bigger, our US player felt it wasn’t enough to “ensure” victory so he just kept adding ships.
In the Atlantic, the US simply didn’t put enough there to really be of any help, plus the Luftwaffe kept US ships at bay.
UNITED KINGDOM - Spent too much time messing with Italy and on SBRs. Our UK player in this game thought it a good idea to invest in a lot of bombers to keep running SBRs on Germany’s ICs. While they did a fair amount of damage, they also lost bombers to AA fire. The only IC I repaired regularly was the W Germany IC so I could keep putting subs in the water. As for dealing with Italy, the UK should have been able to soundly trounce them but between convoy raids by my subs and buying so many expensive bombers, they couldn’t put enough in Africa to totally kick Italy out. It turned into a weird sort of stalemate between Italy and UK. (Our Italy player was a newbie who I don’t think quite grasped the concept of A&A strategies yet.)
UK INDIA - They made the horrible decision to try and build a fleet of their own. They didn’t even take any DEI islands and once Japan took Kwangtung, Malaya and Borneo, thus cutting about 2/3 of their income, then the Japanese Army showed up in Burma, India didn’t have enough to build any real defense. (Also, I don’t think they took into account the massive amount of Japanese air power with the airbase in Kwangsi that could reach India).
ANZAC - This was the only Allied power that actually did some good in this game. While Japan did get all the DEI, Malaya, the Philippines and Kwangtung, then eventually captured India itself, they did so without any warships to protect their transports because Japan was busy staring down the US Navy from SZ 6. So, ANZAC took what little navy they had, killed the Japanese transports and over the course of a few rounds, managed to take back the DEI and even liberated the Philippines. They didn’t dare go further north because they simply didn’t have a lot of warships to risk losing.
The strange part of it is that ANZAC was played by the same player that played UK and India. How he could do so wrong with the other two but do a good job with ANZAC is beyond me.Overall, I don’t think anyone was really taking this game very seriously. Sure these games are played for fun and all, but it just seems like everyone was kind of being a little goofy. I have to admit, I think I got a little of the goofy after a while. I think I could have attacked Moscow earlier but had the sudden idea that I wanted to totally surround it with armies, so that is what I did. After all, Russia wasn’t about to attack me and waste any of it’s precious and growing stack of men.
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To be honest I have never seen a GE1 DOW yet, but is that a viable option even?
It certainly is and has been executed already by top player vs top player (allweneedislove Axis vs gamerman), most probably the 2 best players on this site.
Axis can attack EP, Baltic and Bessarabia and Russia cannot counter EP. the constraint is that Germans can only attack 1 seazone so the UK fleet wont suffer that much.
But enough words, you can have a look in the attached game.
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To be honest I have never seen a GE1 DOW yet, but is that a viable option even?
It certainly is and has been executed already by top player vs top player (allweneedislove Axis vs gamerman), most probably the 2 best players on this site.
Axis can attack EP, Baltic and Bessarabia and Russia cannot counter EP. the constraint is that Germans can only attack 1 seazone so the UK fleet wont suffer that much.
But enough words, you can have a look in the attached game.
That game seems to have too many other factors in it to prove the viability of G1.
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I personally don’t like a German DOW on Russia before G3. That way I can have the Bulgarians and Finns to join in the attack and get all surviving tanks and mechs from France. On G1 or G2 I just don’t think Germany has enough in place and makes it too easy for Russia to counterattack and mess up your front.
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Yeah,
the way I see it (although I have no proof of it, its an estimation), the earlier Germany DOWs Russia, the stronger the UK will emerge from the first round battles. OR Germany messes up its fronts with the Russians.
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The only advantage G1 has over G2 is that you kill the russian inf on the frontier. You get to moscow in the same amount of time. As long as the western allies prepare for it properly, and russia does not throw away too much inf, then Moscow will hold.
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The only advantage G1 has over G2 is that you kill the russian inf on the frontier. You get to moscow in the same amount of time. As long as the western allies prepare for it properly, and russia does not throw away too much inf, then Moscow will hold.
This is the huge difference. Killing 7 Russian inf is huge.
regarding the AWN vs gamerman game. I have to say I never played G1 DOW but I certainly will soon. I believe it is a viable strategy and so does e.g. gamerman and AWN.
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We haven’t done G1 Barbarossa, but G2 is very viable IMO. You need to strafe Yugo from S Germ and retreat to Romania (at least 1 Romanian inf goes in for retreat route). Italy can finish in the Balkans, or even Germany could clean it up G2. Your tanks/mech in the west will catch up (go through N Italy/Yugo). Your main German army may get stalled at some point, but the Russians are losing territory a round quicker and you may be able open up Russia’s southern territories a round faster (into Ukraine IC and the oil). The Russians might feel a little bold because you don’t have as much pushing in the early rounds and try to fight for Leningrad. We all know that if they fight for Leningrad things don’t normally work out for them (dead units can’t defend Moscow). Another transport or two in the Baltic is helpful to shuttle units into the Russian north, or retake Norway if needed.
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It also depends on how you are handling the sz 125 NO for russia and russia taking Iraq a turn or 2 earlier.
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Also i would say i lose about 6-8 original russian infantry who cant retreat back fast enough from the tanks…
I am sorry for being harsh. If he does not attack until G2, this number should always be 0. The only reason for it not to be is if you use a few inf to screen.
All you really have to do is to make your infstacks so big that his tanks are not strong enough to attack them. This is actually not that difficult to do against the force germany can have in russia on g3-g4.
I don’t know exactly what you are doing wrong, but I am pretty sure you are not conducting an effective retreat and not having enough art to present a real danger for a counterattack (which should stop the german for at least 1 turn.
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