13L G40 NT Arathorn (Axis) vs. Infrastructure (Allies +13)

[arathorn]

The map posted is the valid map if you decided to not scramble.
As said, should you want to scramble instead, 1 or more planes, let me know, and I will immediately reroll the sz battle and then the India battle, and do my NCM over right away. Should be only minor tweaks.

[Major Major]

I indeed would have scrambled the tact bomber.

But I must say that the first round of dice minus your bombardments and my tact should stand.
If you disagree lets ask gamerman or jen for a decision.

[arathorn]

Then we reroll from scratch, it’s as simple as that. I’m surprised you even would suggest what you did.

[arathorn]

Here is The India Battle. Now I will Edit the other map according to these results.

indiabattle.tsvg

[arathorn]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 artillery, 3 destroyers and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Kwangtung
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangtung
            3 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
                  Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
            2 infantry moved from Hopei to Suiyuyan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries, 8 infantry and 6 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
            2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to India
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Kwangtung
                Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Kwangtung from UK_Pacific with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in 35 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 43 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win, taking 43 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 3 infantry
                Japanese win with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Chinese: 3 infantry
            Battle in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win, taking 41 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in India
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 8 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                ANZAC defend with 1 fighter; British defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; UK_Pacific defend with 1 factory_major
                Japanese captures 24PUs while taking UK_Pacific capital
                Japanese converts factory_major into different units
                Japanese win, taking India from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 29
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter and 4 infantry
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter
                Casualties for British: 1 aaGun, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            2 tactical_bombers moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from India to Kwangsi
            1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 43 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            2 fighters moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            3 artilleries moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 artillery moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            3 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 aaGun moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Suiyuyan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            1 battleship, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            3 destroyers and 2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 6 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 36 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 artillery placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 33 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
            Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 bomber
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 39 Sea Zone: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kwangsi: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 39 Sea Zone: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Japanese owned units to: battleship = 1
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to India: 2 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[arathorn]

I have now edited the original map that had no scramble to the correct result from the India battle where you indeed did scramble the tactical.

As you can see in the file with only the sz battle and India battle, it is now correct.

[Major Major]

@Boldfresh:

@Infrastructure:

2 things to say.

Know this anyone who reads this thread;  I would and will always allow an opponent to redo a move like this.  I find it ridiculous and repulsive not to.

Everything arathorn(not even close to deserving the name of that or any Numenorean) has said makes it clear he knows that I made a small mental slip that will cost me the game and he would rather have that win then truly defeat me.  So when I lose this game I will have no distaste in my mouth as I did not lose against a worthy opponent.

infra, i can say that Arathorn is worthy of the title, and i think that he almost certainly would have granted your request had you asked nicely.  when you are the one in the wrong, it almost never pays to demand that things be done.

Bold,

I do not beg and I would never consider making someone beg when it was obvious what they meant to do.  Especially when nothing I could have done with germany would have affected the what they had chose to do.

[arathorn]

@Infrastructure:

@Boldfresh:

@Infrastructure:

2 things to say.

Know this anyone who reads this thread;�  I would and will always allow an opponent to redo a move like this.�  I find it ridiculous and repulsive not to.

Everything arathorn(not even close to deserving the name of that or any Numenorean) has said makes it clear he knows that I made a small mental slip that will cost me the game and he would rather have that win then truly defeat me.�  So when I lose this game I will have no distaste in my mouth as I did not lose against a worthy opponent.

infra, i can say that Arathorn is worthy of the title, and i think that he almost certainly would have granted your request had you asked nicely.�  when you are the one in the wrong, it almost never pays to demand that things be done.

Bold,

I do not beg and I would never consider making someone beg when it was obvious what they meant to do.  Especially when nothing I could have done with germany would have affected the what they had chose to do.

First off, I am sorry you feel this way Infrastructure. I have nothing against you, and as everybody else has said when they saw the map, they can understand perfectly how your moves could influence how Germany would set the pace in Europe as the map was when I started it.

I offered an explanation after Russia’s move, but you attacked me instead, and you’ve made several very strange accusations.

I hope we can continue and finish this game in a good way. Just because I said no to your previous request, does not mean that I will say no to other requests you may have in the future.

Yours,
The Numenorean

[seth4god]

For what it’s worth Infrastructure, I do see how the situation in the Pacific could impact the pace of play your opponent (the Numenorean) would choose to press. Yeah, sure there’s not really much what Germany could do right now that would tactically impact what Japan does and vice versa. But strategically it’s a whole other ball game.

I do it all the time myself. If one half of the board is struggling, I might press more on the other side to either draw some heat to that side and/or try to pick up the slack.

As far as all the snide remarks and comments, you’re not going to win yourself many friends by launching personal attacks on someone that many (including myself) see as an honest, fair, and worthy opponent. Rather, you’re probably at greater risk of alienating others by pursuing the personal attacks than you are of swaying players to your view. I recently had a disagreement with someone and although I thought (and still think) I’m in the right, that doesn’t mean I should stoop to personal attacks just because the ruling was not in my favor.

I’ve found you to be a pretty fair opponent in our game to date and I also have a lot of respect for Arathorn as a player and as a person. You can still disagree with him if you wish. But the snide comments are unbecoming of you.

[gamerman01]

Infrastructure has asked me to weigh in on the latest scrambling issue

IIRC Arathorn mentioned something about getting me or Jenn involved, as well.

Just posting to say that I will be checking it out and giving my ruling, a little later tonight.

[boldfresh]

@Infrastructure:

I indeed would have scrambled the tact bomber.

But I must say that the first round of dice minus your bombardments and my tact should stand.
If you disagree lets ask gamerman or jen for a decision.

fwiw I agree with Iinfra even though I havent seen the dice.

[gamerman01]

OK, here are my thoughts.

I don’t like your MO, Arathorn.
First of all, you did your battles out of order.  According to the rulebook, you must roll the battle in India before your battle in Z35, Z43, and Yunnan.
Second of all, when you’ve already had a dispute with Infrastructure and you know he’s upset with you, it is ill-advised to roll through a big battle that has a scramble decision, and dictate how it will be handled if your opponent had a different decision.  I mean, especially when you’re saying that you will re-roll the whole battle.  It is not a good idea to roll out a big battle, telling your opponent you may re-roll the whole thing if they want to make a different choice, in my opinion.

Third, I am baffled that Infrastructure doesn’t just take your re-roll option, because the battle went very well for the Axis.  There was only one bombardment hit out of 3.  Other than an AA hit, the first round did not go well for the Allies, and neither did the following rounds.
That said, Infrastructure is saying that since he would have scrambled the tac to stop bombardment, he thinks the first round dice minus tac and minus bombardment should stand.
I agree with Infrastructure and I would go 1 further.  I think all the dice should stand, as much as possible.  Therefore, if you take his tac out of the battle, then you have 1 less defending “3”.

Round 1
1 bombardment hit - annulled
1 tactical bomber hit in defense - annulled

Japanese fleet vs. tactical bomberRolls: 3@2 3@3 1@4; Total Hits: 23@2: (3, 4, 1)3@3: (6, 4, 4)1@4: (3)Rolls: 1@3; Total Hits: 01@3: (6)

Round 2
Japan should have an extra infantry (taken off by annulled tac hit) Here is its roll -Rolls: 1@1; Total Hits: 01@1: (4)
UK should have an extra infantry (taken off by annulled bombardment) Here is its roll -Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (4)

[gamerman01]

Continuing…

[gamerman01]

The UK tac missed in round 2 anyway

The tactical did not score a hit on the fleet, so no edit necessary.  Wait - it looks like Arathorn re-did it and rolled a hit and damaged the battleship - that’s fine.  It’s going to auto-repair anyway.

Your extra infantry missed in round 2, so no change.

Based on my correcting rolls, there is no change to make to the map.  You guys should play on, and be more careful to follow the rules and not make assumptions about your opponent’s choices, given the misunderstandings you’ve had to date.

Happy gaming

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

Your extra infantry missed in round 2, so no change.

Based on my correcting rolls, there is no change to make to the map.  You guys should play on, and be more careful to follow the rules and not make assumptions about your opponent’s choices, given the misunderstandings you’ve had to date.

Happy gaming

Correction.  Japan should have one more infantry replaced, since the tactical bomber that Infrastructure wanted to scramble, did not hit the infantry in the first round.

[gamerman01]

Wait.  Arathorn’s multiple maps are messing with me.  Give me a minute.

[gamerman01]

I thought for a minute that Arathorn had re-rolled the entire battle, but this is not the case.

Right?

[arathorn]

I did reroll the entire battle.

[arathorn]

@Gamerman01:

@Gamerman01:

Your extra infantry missed in round 2, so no change.

Based on my correcting rolls, there is no change to make to the map.  You guys should play on, and be more careful to follow the rules and not make assumptions about your opponent’s choices, given the misunderstandings you’ve had to date.

Happy gaming

Correction.  Japan should have one more infantry replaced, since the tactical bomber that Infrastructure wanted to scramble, did not hit the infantry in the first round.

This is correct. I should have 13 units left instead of 12, so I will add one more unit. Since I sacrificed a plane, I will add that one.

I will also repair the battleship, since if he is able to retake India, it won’t be repaired.

[arathorn]

@Gamerman01:

OK, here are my thoughts.

I don’t like your MO, Arathorn.
First of all, you did your battles out of order.� According to the rulebook, you must roll the battle in India before your battle in Z35, Z43, and Yunnan.
Second of all, when you’ve already had a dispute with Infrastructure and you know he’s upset with you, it is ill-advised to roll through a big battle that has a scramble decision, and dictate how it will be handled if your opponent had a different decision.� I mean, especially when you’re saying that you will re-roll the whole battle.� It is not a good idea to roll out a big battle, telling your opponent you may re-roll the whole thing if they want to make a different choice, in my opinion.

Third, I am baffled that Infrastructure doesn’t just take your re-roll option, because the battle went very well for the Axis.� There was only one bombardment hit out of 3.� Other than an AA hit, the first round did not go well for the Allies, and neither did the following rounds.
That said, Infrastructure is saying that since he would have scrambled the tac to stop bombardment, he thinks the first round dice minus tac and minus bombardment should stand.
I agree with Infrastructure and I would go 1 further.� I think all the dice should stand, as much as possible.� Therefore, if you take his tac out of the battle, then you have 1 less defending “3”.

I receive your correction. I purposely rolled India last, since I didn’t want to have to roll through and edit all the others afterwards.

I also should have controlled my character flaw of patience, and just waited for his decision.

I will edit according to your ruling.