KGF - Stick a Landing!

Look at it from the German perspective:

Each requires Germany pay attention and hopefully pull back air units from the East and spend money.

France is easiest to defend for Germany.  9 units a round can be built in the 3 factories.  Tanks or air in W. Germany are within range.

If bombing has taken away that option, W. Germany and N. Italy are still there.

And, in the end, the Allies have only taken 2-3 ipcs, no N.O.

Norway gives the Allies Scandinavia, will cost Germany 8 immediately and 10 the next turn once Finland goes, too, and requires a navy to retake, unless they’re using ground forces from Russia.

That means Norway is more expensive for Germany to lose and MUCH more expensive for Germany to retake.
Either is easily reinforce able via London, though, yes, Normandy is absurdly easy.

/assuming U.S./UK fleet is large enough to stay afloat after taking Norway.

In most of my games, the Germans have 8+ Bombers sitting in Western Germany along with several subs sitting in SZ 126. So the 3 plane scramble is essential. To me, taking away a German NO is awesome. Sacking my fleet for the loss of 8 IPC’s at the minimum for the Germans isnt worth it. With 8+ Bombers, several subs and Misc. planes for the Germans is enough to ward me off of a landing in Norway. I would have to spend my money in Europe for the United States, that cant fly if Japan is going buck wild in the Pacific, which it usually is.

The Allies rely on reactionary play anyways. The Board should look different every game. The Allies should choose a landing spot accordingly. It just so happens that 8+ Bombers influences my decision.

Like I said, there are trade offs for each option. No one landing spot is perfect. It is a matter of the amount of sacrifice for the Allies to win the game.

This has been a very interesting thread. Normandy is such a good site for an allied landing that the Axis are normally on their guard for a landing there. I leave it French if I can.  In one game, USA landed on Normandy in spite of it being French!

If the Axis are not prepared though, I agree with the others that Normandy is the preferred location. It does beg the question about the next step is if it can be held for a few turns. Obvious move is to push into Southern France. If that can be held also, the Axis are in real trouble with 6 US units being cranked out per turn but that is very unlikely unless Italy has no real income. Why doesn’t moving into Holland work out? Perhaps the major factory next door.

Southern France is nice if it can be pulled off, not least because maintaining the fleet means costing the Italians their control of the med NO and it also makes it easy to put in a few subs to SZ97 to kill Italy’s income. Bigger investment to get there, bigger reward if you can make it stick.

Norway is the least investment, but arguably the least reward, particularly if Germany has kept their transport or built another while you are on the way.

@Hunter:

In most of my games, the Germans have 8+ Bombers sitting in Western Germany along with several subs sitting in SZ 126.

SZ125? With that sort of force, the allies need a large fleet to fight and survive. You aren’t talking early game then. Perhaps after Moscow has fallen?

@Ichabod:

I would play a league game with you…but I’m not in your tier group. Anyways, when you finish some of your games and can take on another I’ll play you as allies with a bid you think fair…you’ve beat me every game we’ve played. Or is BM3 straight up more fair for both sides?

A lot of players are doing small bids for Axis in BM3. I’m happy to go again anyway.

It is usually around round 4 or 5, Germany is always building Bombers and pushing a sub almost every turn. Its about 4 or 5 subs sitting there. Maybe more if the G1 Fleet attacks went really well for the Germans.

The IC for the US is essential. I would still land there too if it was still French.

Myself and another player, Corpo24 landed in Holland/Belgium as a distraction. We also had a minor UK force land in Normandy to draw units away. Granted it was the Oztea’s 1941 Setup, so the French had a transport. When we landed in those spots, the German player freaked out and build a ton of infantry and Italy took Normandy back before we smashed it with a Major US force and kept it for the rest of the game.

@Hunter:

The IC for the US is essential. I would still land there too if it was still French.

Obviously not completely essential then if you are landing there in spite of it being French! No one can use the IC if it’s French unless Paris is liberated and actually buys some units.

As for 1sub+1bomber per turn for Germany, sounds like your group are playing Germany very differently to what I normally see and do.

No no you are alle playing it wrong. The Allied invasion fleet should start from Gibraltar port, and project a threat to every landing spot. This fleet should also have a UK tranny with 2 French infantry, and another with 2 ANZAC infantry, and a UK Carrier with a French Fighter and an ANZAC Fighter. I would like to see the Axis defend against that, man. If you use the minors just to support the US landing, then you are using them wrong. They should secure your flanks, not stack as fodder. Obviously, with this strategy, Norway is out. Either Normandy or Southern France should be the main US landing spot, with separate UK, French and ANZAC landings in the adjacent territories or islands. Follow this advise and the Axis will never win again, man

@simon33:

@Hunter:

The IC for the US is essential. I would still land there too if it was still French.

Obviously not completely essential then if you are landing there in spite of it being French! No one can use the IC if it’s French unless Paris is liberated and actually buys some units.

As for 1sub+1bomber per turn for Germany, sounds like your group are playing Germany very differently to what I normally see and do.

Yes, we play a very different Germany. Almost Akin to how to play it in the 1942.2 game. Use Italian units in the East and use North Africa to draw as many units as possible into that area. Italy is playing defense at that point with its homeland.

@Narvik:

No no you are alle playing it wrong. The Allied invasion fleet should start from Gibraltar port, and project a threat to every landing spot. This fleet should also have a UK tranny with 2 French infantry, and another with 2 ANZAC infantry, and a UK Carrier with a French Fighter and an ANZAC Fighter. I would like to see the Axis defend against that, man. If you use the minors just to support the US landing, then you are using them wrong. They should secure your flanks, not stack as fodder. Obviously, with this strategy, Norway is out. Either Normandy or Southern France should be the main US landing spot, with separate UK, French and ANZAC landings in the adjacent territories or islands. Follow this advise and the Axis will never win again, man

Are you sure about never winning again? And SZ 91 is a good orgin point for any invasion fleet, no matter where it goes. (W. Germany, Norway, Normandy, Southern France, Northern Italy, Southern Italy) those are all targets. Obviously if we could, Berlin would be the ideal landing spot to take the Capital and downgrade the IC there so if they take it back, they have to deal with a Minor on their capital instead of a Major.

I think Narvik was joking.

I think so too. Only part of it.

Narvik, I must ask you not to speak so candidly when you have already taken the extreme risk of placing two French infantry on a bloody British ship!  I expect four P-38s and two cruiser tanks in return for every French life lost while onboard those British seadog’s sloopy excuse for a navy.

USA’s job is to stop Japan and provide sufficient support in the Atlantic for the UK to harass and prolong Germany’s invasion of Russia. If you go strong in Atlantic, then you need Gibraltar to base from. Depending on the actions of your opponent, you hit where the opportunity exists to injure him the most. If Italy is open and cannot be easily retaken, then go for it. If Germany lacks the defenses to protect Norway, go for it.

The answer to your question is: It Depends.

Hope to see you around some time for an in person game.

-Siparo

Edit: Grammar

I would prefer to have s. france or norway presented to me by my opponent as realistic options. But it’s almost never the case.

9 out of 10 game my sticky landing is normandy. It has some advantages in logistics and defense from britain that makes it more accessible and with fewer risk. And that latter part is my cornerstone as Allies. Dont risk to much. small/medium 50/50 battles, harrasment, blockades and diversions from axis’ primary goals are huge things for the Allies and to that end is Normady my go to choice.

And good poll by the way.
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MrCunego

Italy is the soft underbelly of “Fortress Europe.”

KGF works much worse than a sub heavy 100% KJF.  If you do KGF 100%, the key IMO is taking norway AND finland over and getting factories on both of those.  At that point, Germany cant turn his back on you to attack moscow bc then you take a third us factory (leningrad)

attacking the atlantic wall directly is just trading back and forth w germany at his advantage

attacking italy takes 100% of allied resources but reminds why all extra $ land should go to germany;  germany can use it more effectively and it can easily be taken away from italy same italys income

we have been modding the game to split the adriatic into 2 zones which prevents taranto and squatting on all of italys core money in 1 zone.  still, the allies can suffocate italy while germany is bombing russia out