• Wow… Just… WOW… Please using superhero references makes what your saying even MORE confusing. I think you’d find some food in the wilderness. What about the Trail of Tears hmmm? I’m part Cherokee. Next thing your gonna tell me the US government planned to kill all them but had a few setbacks so they couldn’t. Just because you send someone on a death march doesn’t mean their gonna die ( :?). Lets look at another historical reference. The Battan Death March. Nuff said…


  • @Pvt.Ryan:

    Guys keep the thread clean. This is just a healthy disscussion. I think what Kurt says makes sense. Like I said before. Hitler had a “list” of sorts that said "okay the Poles lose food first. Then the French. Then the Germans.

    Thanks for your cool-headed response, and for trying to calm the discussion. Some of the subjects in this thread are difficult to discuss objectively.

    One of the reasons for this is the way that most Western schools teach history. When I was in school, we were told about the Holocaust, and about the large numbers of people who died in Eastern Europe under Nazi rule. Nothing was said about the British naval blockade or Germany’s food supply, and the implication was that Germany could have fed everyone within its borders had it chosen to do so. Passing references were sometimes made to a small subset of the Soviet Union’s mass murders. But there was no effort at all to humanize the victims: we were never shown pictures or video footage of them, never shown their diaries or other writings, and were never told any of their names. No mention was made of JSC 1067, or the effort to inflict starvation on postwar Germany. Instead the emphasis was on America’s generosity in providing Germany with the Marshall Plan–a plan which had not been put into effect until 1948, after three years of deliberate starvation.

    We were not told of Hitler’s fear of a Soviet invasion of Germany, once the Soviets had finished Stalin’s program of militarization and industrialization. Nor were we told that no major Western democracy had an anti-Soviet foreign policy, or seriously opposed Soviet expansionism, until 1948. When Poland and the Soviet Union went to war in 1919, and when the Soviets were on the verge of annexing all of Poland, the Western democracies did nothing, or (in the case of France) next to nothing. No mention was made of this war. Hitler’s efforts to expand Germany were presented as the acts of a madman, or at very least as a result of an all-consuming need to conquer. Never once was the possibility suggested that Hitler felt the need to expand because of the Western democracies’ moral failure–of their failure to oppose the spread of communism. The fact that many Western democratic leaders, including FDR, were strongly pro-communist was simply not mentioned.

    We were told that Hitler had planned all along to exterminate the Jews, and that any reasonable person who read Mein Kampf would come away with this same conclusion. We were told that the Germans were collectively guilty for having democratically elected such an obviously evil man. We were not told that Hitler wanted to export Germany’s Jews to Madagascar, or that under Hitler’s government 10% of Germany’s Jews emigrated to Palestine, while a greater number emigrated elsewhere. Such arguments would have undercut the (false) notion that Hitler had planned on exterminating the Jews from the very beginning; and would have absolved the German people of the burden of collective guilt which many were so eager to bestow.

    Moral outrage and indignation were sometimes expressed about Germany’s bombing of British cities. The Allies’ far more massive bombing raids against German cities were described in far more innocuous terms.

    No mention is made of the rape and murder that the Red Army inflicted on Germany as it advanced westward. Children are not asked to read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s poem “Prussian Nights;” nor are they told about its historical context. They are not told that, as part of the Yalta Conference, Britain and the U.S. had agreed that citizens of the Soviet Union found in conquered German territory would be turned over to the Soviets, regardless of their consent. This meant that millions of people who had fled westward to escape the Red Army would be placed at the mercy of Joseph Stalin.


    Tolstoy described the scene of Americans returning to the internment camp after having delivered a shipment of people to the Russians. “The Americans returned to Plattling visibly shamefaced. Before their departure from the rendezvous in the forest, many had seen rows of bodies already hanging from the branches of nearby trees.”[10]


    We are told neither that FDR liked and admired Joseph Stalin, nor that he directly cooperated with Soviet mass murder. We are not told that among those who died as a result of Operation Keelhaul were Lithuanians, Latvians, and Estonians who had bravely fought the Soviet Union to defend their families and their homes from Soviet invasion, Soviet mass murder, and Soviet tyranny. They also included many women and children who had fled westward to escape Stalin’s paranoia and bloodlust, and the terror of the Red Army.

    The education we received was propagandistic, included numerous false assertions, and often bore only a passing resemblance to reality. An education such as this was designed to create the impression that the Nazis were pure evil and had to be stopped at all costs; and that the communists, while imperfect, were considerably less evil. In order to create that emotional impression, a number of false or misleading statements had to be made, and a great deal of factual evidence swept under the rug. The effect of such an education is interesting, in that the emotional impressions it has created seem to remain behind, even when many factual misrepresentations have been corrected.

    Those who champion this kind of propagandistic education are often fond of phrases such as “history forgotten is bound to be repeated.” And yet . . . which historical mistakes are we avoiding by engaging in this kind of propaganda? People subjected to it conclude (at least in some cases) that using food as a weapon against civilian populations is okay, as long as the victims are Germans or people living in German-controlled territory, and as long as Germany had provoked the situation by invading Poland. This kind of propagandistic educational effort does not teach the lesson that genocide is wrong, that the laws of war should be respected, that it is wrong to target enemy civilians, or that it is wrong to commit atrocities. The lesson being learned is that atrocities and attacks on civilians are okay if committed by Western democratic governments, or perhaps even by communists, but represent the ultimate embodiment of evil when committed by Nazis. This kind of bias and inability to discern right from wrong is not morality. It is the kind of thinking which causes people to believe it’s okay for Britain to “defend” Poland by imposing a food blockade that starves millions of Poles, for the United States to kill tens of thousands of German women and children in places like Dresden and many other German cities, and for the Allies to use hunger to slowly kill Germans (especially babies, children, and the very old) during the postwar era.


  • You are  now telling lies to try and salvage the reputation of the madman Hitler.
    There was no forced starvation of post war Germany.
    You are making it up.

    Germany was the world leasder in baby killing and even the most basic google will give you dozens of photos of Germans hanging Soviet  female civilians and grinning at the camers.
    The dozens of photos of naked Jewish women being murdered by ordinary German soldiers show that you are blind to the crimes of the Nazis. You would have us believe it was ‘mercy killing’ because the bad Allies were slowly starving them to death.
    No matter how hard you try you are  nothing more than a Nazi apologist who refuses to face reality.
    The aim was to kill the  millions of people in the east. It was worked out before the war. Nothing you invent  can change the facts.


  • Ok this thread is nothing but a bitch fest.

    So sorry closed… Its not like anybody will prove anything.

Suggested Topics

  • 82
  • 16
  • 104
  • 218
  • 5
  • 1
  • 16
  • 34
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

27

Online

17.0k

Users

39.2k

Topics

1.7m

Posts