How to balance Global 1940?



  • After several games we have seen that the axis, unless you carry out a Sea Lion (3 matches won by the Allies, Axis 1), hardly able to win. Japan is almost irrelevant if it does not distract in the U.S. can attack Stalingrad but takes a long time to conduct a formidable attack.

    IMHO, there are errors in the European setup, however, to remedy the only thing that came to mind is the division of IPC of  American player, like UK on the basis of territoriality and the bonus of War to the player’s choice.

    For example:
    65 IPC in Europe and 17 in the Pacific, in case it decides to give everything to Europe. What do you think?



  • I have floated this idea several times on a few different threads.  The only draw back is that US could just build ground/air units in WUS/EUS and walk/fly them over to whatever theatre they are pushing into…still…it does create a slight stall, even if the US player does that.  It does not change the game through addition/subtraction of either pcs or IPC’s, and is also a little more realistic.  I am all for it personnally.  Played 2 games with it that way so far…one win each so far…I will let you know in about 20 more games… 😄



  • It’s not realistic that money from EUS can’t be spent in WUS.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    It’s not realistic that money from EUS can’t be spent in WUS.

    It’s a game, not World in Flames or Hearts of Iron. 🙂

    it’s only way to balance a little this beautiful game.



  • @Stefano1189:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    It’s not realistic that money from EUS can’t be spent in WUS.

    It’s a game, not World in Flames or Hearts of Iron. 🙂

    it’s only way to balance a little this beautiful game.

    It doesn’t need balancing. It’s fine already. The axis have a higher learning curve, just like the allies did in previous editions



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Stefano1189:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    It’s not realistic that money from EUS can’t be spent in WUS.

    It’s a game, not World in Flames or Hearts of Iron. 🙂

    it’s only way to balance a little this beautiful game.

    It doesn’t need balancing. It’s fine already. The axis have a higher learning curve, just like the allies did in previous editions

    I do not know how many games you’ve done with the Axis and the Allies, but against experienced players the game definitely is in favor of the Allies. Germany does not produce 80 as the U.S., produces 30 in first round, during the 2nd round 65-68 and at 3°, down to 45-50, maybe 60 coming in the later rounds.

    US-UK-USSR

    1 ° 52 - 29 - 37 = 118
    2 ° 52 - (27 \ 32) - 37 = 116/121
    3 ° 52 - 26 - 34 \ 39 = 112/117
    4 ° 50 +30 - 25 - 30 \ 35 = 135/140

    The allies seem to have a definite advantage … not to mention if they are experienced players, only luck can turn the tide.

    I’d like to know what are your Axis strategies as stating that the game is balanced. I’m curious.



  • I think the game is close to perfect now.  The real war was not balanced after late '42 and that is reflected in the game.  No doubt Axis has a big uphill climb, but thats how it was.  The challenge is to see if you can do better than Axis, and MAYBE win.  If we wanted true balance we would all start with the same money like Monopoly.



  • We’ve had the Axis win 3 of 4 games, with no Sealion.  Japan simply has too many aircraft (Even with Alpha setup)-  the US even with 80 IPCs- cannot compete.  Japan usually makes 60+ and is pushing hard through China to Russia is our games.



  • For a game thats been out for a month with such a huge scale and so many decisions available I highly doubt anyone can make any accurate claims on balance.  That being said, Allies are probably easier to play at first but that doesnt necessarily mean the game isn’t balanced (as balanced as any game can be at such a huge scale, obviously its not chess or checkers).


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    In the older games, the allies had a marginally greater total income which only slowly translated into an allied advantage on the battlefield.  However, now, the income disparity is huge, and the Axis have only a few turns to run rampant before the weight of the Allies’ economic might will hem them in and crush them.  I think the problem primarily is that Germany is militarily underpowered.  It needs more planes, particularly when compared to Japan.  If Germany had more land units and a larger air force I think the game would be better balanced.

    That being said, the Axis has won most of the games I have been involved in primarily because the US has been indecisive in the face of all its cash.  Ironically, the US player is fooled into thinking that with all its money, it can do everything and anything.  When in reality, especially with the expanded distances in the Atlantic, the US does have to make hard choices and really focus on one theater.  My greatest fear when playing the Axis is that the US will go for broke to smash Italy, open up the Med, flood the Atlantic with destroyers and start drawing of men in raids on France.  But, so far my US opponents tend to slowly build up large forces in the Pacific and then in the Atlantic that do nothing….



  • I will with hold from stating that the game is imbalanced with so few games being played as of yet. However it seems to me the game gives the chances to play smart and overcome the allied advantage of income. Also it seems that there are too many knee jerk responses to balance in these games and given that a player may seem at an advantage bad/ill advised moves tend to lose the game.

    EDIT: it also seems that people are looking for optimal moves at the optimal time and with the optimal outcome. Unless you play with low luck (the easy way out of thinking and taking gambles in war) then you will always find fault in setups and oob rules.



  • @Stefano1189:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Stefano1189:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    It’s not realistic that money from EUS can’t be spent in WUS.

    It’s a game, not World in Flames or Hearts of Iron. 🙂

    it’s only way to balance a little this beautiful game.

    It doesn’t need balancing. It’s fine already. The axis have a higher learning curve, just like the allies did in previous editions

    I do not know how many games you’ve done with the Axis and the Allies, but against experienced players the game definitely is in favor of the Allies. Germany does not produce 80 as the U.S., produces 30 in first round, during the 2nd round 65-68 and at 3°, down to 45-50, maybe 60 coming in the later rounds.

    US-UK-USSR

    1 ° 52 - 29 - 37 = 118
    2 ° 52 - (27 \ 32) - 37 = 116/121
    3 ° 52 - 26 - 34 \ 39 = 112/117
    4 ° 50 +30 - 25 - 30 \ 35 = 135/140

    The allies seem to have a definite advantage … not to mention if they are experienced players, only luck can turn the tide.

    I’d like to know what are your Axis strategies as stating that the game is balanced. I’m curious.

    As gamerman01 has said to me:
    "Calvin, looking at overall income for each side per turn is VERY deceiving.  As in chess, position is often more important than material. "



  • Even with no experience yet playing the global combined board (hope to get a game in this weekend!!), I agree with most of you in saying the game has only been out a month or so now and its too early to jump to conclusions.  The declaration of war rules are the one thing that makes or breaks the game for each side from what I have been reading.  With no clear cut goals in mind, bad purchases, lack of global vision all lead to skewed views like it always has in previous versions.  I do agree however, that the USA should have some sort of split income but that would make the game too predictable.  America has and always will be the key for the Allies to win, wherever she attacks  that Axis player will be hurting.  Question is, can you win on one front while holding onto the other?  That goes for both sides.



  • I think the game is fairly balanced, more then historical. Considering that Germany can knock out nearly the entire British navy and conduct a sealion, something that was pretty far fetched in real life. The fact that it is such an uphill battle for the axis to secure victory, is also more historical that balanced, but it means that the game has a good balance between playabality and history.

    Is it perfect? Maybe not. Is it an awesome game that if great to play? Absolutely!!!  😄



  • @Gharen:

    Even with no experience yet playing the global combined board (hope to get a game in this weekend!!), I agree with most of you in saying the game has only been out a month or so now and its too early to jump to conclusions.  The declaration of war rules are the one thing that makes or breaks the game for each side from what I have been reading.  With no clear cut goals in mind, bad purchases, lack of global vision all lead to skewed views like it always has in previous versions.  I do agree however, that the USA should have some sort of split income but that would make the game too predictable.  America has and always will be the key for the Allies to win, wherever she attacks  that Axis player will be hurting.  Question is, can you win on one front while holding onto the other?  That goes for both sides.

    Why split income? It’s not historical to prohibit WUS money from being used in EUS. There were high connections between EUS and WUS, unlike between UK and India. Anyhow, this forces the uS to have only 47 ipcs for the Pacific(assuming the NO can be put in either side) and 65 for Europe. That puts it behind both respective axis powers in those theaters.



  • @Clyde85:

    I think the game is fairly balanced, more then historical. Considering that Germany can knock out nearly the entire British navy and conduct a sealion, something that was pretty far fetched in real life. The fact that it is such an uphill battle for the axis to secure victory, is also more historical that balanced, but it means that the game has a good balance between playabality and history.

    Is it perfect? Maybe not. Is it an awesome game that if great to play? Absolutely!!!  😄

    Thank you! It’s much better than the ALLIES having a harder timer. The ahistorical wipeout of the RN already gives the axis the advantage they need. Keep in mind that with a game this epic, it is almost impossible to discern balance issues in 1 month(unless the game is REALLY broken; it took a few months to discover that P40 is broken).



  • The Axis have to take as many IPC’s and NO’s away from the Allies as soon as possible. I have played the Axis a couple times now and the key is concentrating forces to knock down a power at a time and take away their NO’s before DOW on another. Japan has to move as fast as possible to take China out, then focus on taking those 4 islands away from UK. Germany has to take out France, then focus on USSR so it can start getting the russian city NO’s. If both Axis sides push in towards Asia, and play defense on the other sides, they can win. Germany plays defense by taking out Atlantic allied navies within distance of Europe. The distance between US and Europe means that Germans can buy cheap subs and lay back and wait for US to come in striking distance then counter back with subs higher attack value. Mix a few planes in and the US will have a lot of ships at the bottom of the atlantic. All the while they can focus cheap infantry and artillery units east towards USSR. Don’t let the German tanks get killed, always provide lots of cannon fodder.



  • @GrandMasterC:

    The Axis have to take as many IPC’s and NO’s away from the Allies as soon as possible. I have played the Axis a couple times now and the key is concentrating forces to knock down a power at a time and take away their NO’s before DOW on another. Japan has to move as fast as possible to take China out, then focus on taking those 4 islands away from UK. Germany has to take out France, then focus on USSR so it can start getting the russian city NO’s. If both Axis sides push in towards Asia, and play defense on the other sides, they can win. Germany plays defense by taking out Atlantic allied navies within distance of Europe. The distance between US and Europe means that Germans can buy cheap subs and lay back and wait for US to come in striking distance then counter back with subs higher attack value. Mix a few planes in and the US will have a lot of ships at the bottom of the atlantic. All the while they can focus cheap infantry and artillery units east towards USSR. Don’t let the German tanks get killed, always provide lots of cannon fodder.

    Each sub cost 6 IPC which means 2 less infantry\or 1 tank on Russian front, for what? To build a thin naval wall? The Luftwaffe is vital and it’s too small to fight on Russia, Normandy and North Europe ( not to mention Africa). The Americans will come with 8-10 warships, 2-3 destroyers, 1 AC, 2 ftr, 1 BB, 1 Cr… the subs are useless.

    A normal, he don’t need to be Napoleon, US player make an “All in” in Europe, 156 IPC in the first 3 turns, 82 IPC for the rest of the game and the Germany said good bye.

    US take Norway and put a 10 IC, wipe out the Italians and take Rome and kick out Italy.

    The Allies can lose only with undecided or noob players.



  • @Stefano1189:

    @GrandMasterC:

    The Axis have to take as many IPC’s and NO’s away from the Allies as soon as possible. I have played the Axis a couple times now and the key is concentrating forces to knock down a power at a time and take away their NO’s before DOW on another. Japan has to move as fast as possible to take China out, then focus on taking those 4 islands away from UK. Germany has to take out France, then focus on USSR so it can start getting the russian city NO’s. If both Axis sides push in towards Asia, and play defense on the other sides, they can win. Germany plays defense by taking out Atlantic allied navies within distance of Europe. The distance between US and Europe means that Germans can buy cheap subs and lay back and wait for US to come in striking distance then counter back with subs higher attack value. Mix a few planes in and the US will have a lot of ships at the bottom of the atlantic. All the while they can focus cheap infantry and artillery units east towards USSR. Don’t let the German tanks get killed, always provide lots of cannon fodder.

    Each sub cost 6 IPC which means 2 less infantry\or 1 tank on Russian front, for what? To build a thin naval wall? The Luftwaffe is vital and it’s too small to fight on Russia, Normandy and North Europe ( not to mention Africa). The Americans will come with 8-10 warships, 2-3 destroyers, 1 AC, 2 ftr, 1 BB, 1 Cr… the subs are useless.

    A normal, he don’t need to be Napoleon, US player make an “All in” in Europe, 156 IPC in the first 3 turns, 82 IPC for the rest of the game and the Germany said good bye.

    US take Norway and put a 10 IC, wipe out the Italians and take Rome and kick out Italy.

    The Allies can lose only with undecided or noob players.

    US goes all atlantic? Only a retarded Japanese player would let the axis loose



  • Stefano, please get a challenging Japan player. Japan is in this also and if the USA did what you state then the game could be or will be in peril.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Stefano1189:

    @GrandMasterC:

    The Axis have to take as many IPC’s and NO’s away from the Allies as soon as possible. I have played the Axis a couple times now and the key is concentrating forces to knock down a power at a time and take away their NO’s before DOW on another. Japan has to move as fast as possible to take China out, then focus on taking those 4 islands away from UK. Germany has to take out France, then focus on USSR so it can start getting the russian city NO’s. If both Axis sides push in towards Asia, and play defense on the other sides, they can win. Germany plays defense by taking out Atlantic allied navies within distance of Europe. The distance between US and Europe means that Germans can buy cheap subs and lay back and wait for US to come in striking distance then counter back with subs higher attack value. Mix a few planes in and the US will have a lot of ships at the bottom of the atlantic. All the while they can focus cheap infantry and artillery units east towards USSR. Don’t let the German tanks get killed, always provide lots of cannon fodder.

    Each sub cost 6 IPC which means 2 less infantry\or 1 tank on Russian front, for what? To build a thin naval wall? The Luftwaffe is vital and it’s too small to fight on Russia, Normandy and North Europe ( not to mention Africa). The Americans will come with 8-10 warships, 2-3 destroyers, 1 AC, 2 ftr, 1 BB, 1 Cr… the subs are useless.

    A normal, he don’t need to be Napoleon, US player make an “All in” in Europe, 156 IPC in the first 3 turns, 82 IPC for the rest of the game and the Germany said good bye.

    US take Norway and put a 10 IC, wipe out the Italians and take Rome and kick out Italy.

    The Allies can lose only with undecided or noob players.

    US goes all atlantic? Only a retarded Japanese player would let the axis loose

    Calvin is a question of geography. In Europe Axis has 2 Capitals and the Allies have 3 Capitals. In the Pacific Theatre we have 1 Axis Capital and 2 Minor Factions (Anzac e Commonwealth) and Major Allies have 0 capitals.

    Only if Japan threatens San Francisco the game would change in favor of the Axis.

    I am not the greatest player nor presumptuous… also i do not say that the game is broken, it’s fine but it requires some balances. A KFG is the most viable strategy for the Allies, for now. 🙂

    Good Morning from Italy.



  • @deadbunny:

    Stefano, please get a challenging Japan player. Japan is in this also and if the USA did what you state then the game could be or will be in peril.

    We have challenging players for each faction. When the Japan’s cash is 70 IPC the Germany is dying. Only Sea Lion in one game saved Germany from defeat.

    5 Global games = 40/45 hours…

    3 Allies
    1 Axis (with Sea Lion)
    1 tie

    Europe

    4 games

    3 allies
    1 axis (sea lion)

    Pacific

    3 games

    2 allies
    1 tie



  • If you went all Europe against me Stafano you would lose ANZAC in a hurry, and be facing troop landings in Alaska, Canada, and WUS……I am not saying I could take WUS unless you are really not paying attention…but I would make you turn right back around and stall you for SEVERAL turns trying to cover the backdoor you left wide open…



  • And USA is not going to send 82 IPCs each round to Europe even in wet dreams. Say goodbye to Alaska and Hawaii, say hello to convoy raids at Mexico and WUSA (12 IPCs), and say hello to a japanese invasion army … with a bit of luck, USA will not lose San Francisco

    Remember that Japan is, in game terms, nearer to America (you know, that continent from Anchorage to Punta Arenas) than to Moscow. After toasting China, India and Australia, their natural target is America, not Moscow



  • As the setup stands, Euro40 and Pac40 individually favor the Axis, but when put together - Global 40 - it favors the Allies. Here’s why:

    a. 18 Soviet infantry + 1ANZAC infantry- no matter how you slice it, that’s an extra $57 of material for the Allies.
    Advantage: Allies

    b. Spatial equity- if the US can cross the larger Atlantic quickly with so much cash (after DOW of course), Japan should have the ability to cross a longer spaced Asia in the same time with a little bit less cash, but…it doesn’t.
    Advantage: Allies slightly

    c. 9 extra IPCs for USSR that doesn’t even appear in Pac40 only but in Global. Yes, in Europe, you get the 2inf rule from Novo, but it takes you 9 rounds to just break even with what you start with in having the 18inf, plus you can now buy 3 inf per round with the extra IPC’s so the Novo Euro40 rule doesn’t quite wash out the extra 9 IPCs you get in Global.
    Advantage: Allies slightly

    d. The US makes $17 (+40 at DOW)- Pac 40,
                          $35 (+30 at DOW)- Euro 40
                          $52 (+30 at DOW)- Global 40

    The bonus cash is toned down a little in Global (spread over 2 theaters) the problem is that in Global that $82 at DOW can be spent in either theatre. Players will tend to throw all the money into Pacific or all into Europe in a KGF or KJF strategy. $82 is a lot of cash to spend in one theatre. That’s OK if the Axis can match that somehow by compensating that by dominating the other side of the board.
    Advantage: undecided (as I think more playtesting is needed into further rounds).

    Early Conclusions:

    Although changes for Pac40 are good (I assume their might be some changes to Euro40 as well) they don’t seem to mesh well with Global40 because of the mentioned issues. Global40 is truly a different animal than the individual games… and because of the mentioned issues, the Global Game favors the Allies- so 1 or more of the suggestions below should balance that out a little more:

    Some Ideas and/or Solutions for Global40 only:

    1. Beef up the Alpha setup slightly for Japan in Global only-possibly with a few more mech inf (fast moving minor land units)- maybe starting in Japan- make that player move them out.

    2. NO for the US should possibly be +20 (or +25) at DOW for Global instead of +30, forcing the US to be a little more resourceful.

    3. Also, I think that the victory conditions for both Axis and Allies should be changed from “captured for a round of play” –-> “captured immediately”. This helps Axis out a little more than Allies.

    4. Also, for the sake of balancing issue- apply the “optional” German sub Convoy rule- 3 IPC convoy destruction per sub.

    5. Still add 2inf for the UK on England to balance that Sealion assualt (It will still be German advantage but not as much).

    I wanna playtest these somehow, so if anybody wants to do that on ABattlemap, let me know.

    Larry did suggest that there may be a small tweak to the Europe setup- “something to help England’s initial defense” (like 2 more infantry), but he said it was really too early to tell right now, the setup may not need anything.  Also, he said there may be a small tweak in ALPHA too- maybe- so get used to that being the new setup for Japan.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 16
  • 28
  • 19
  • 4
  • 65
  • 3
  • 4
  • 1
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

46
Online

13.7k
Users

34.1k
Topics

1.3m
Posts