16L G40 BM2 axis-dominion vs Adam (allies)

[Adam514]

And of course I don’t disagree that BM is not perfectly balanced, since that is impossible. Nothing wrong with bidding if both players feel the need. I for one would have an easier time winning with Axis atm. Back-up to round 4 and push Bryansk and I’d say it would end as an Axis win.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

Pushing Bryansk should have been given top priority considering a J4, and you could have if you bought for it and positioned your air. That’s a 20+ income swing.

Not taking Guam. Even sacrificing a transport is worth it, especially if you have the sea zone deadzoned.

i think you’re referring to G5, positioning all out to take bry…well i considered that option but saw it was futile:

with max bomber buy (4 bombers) and EVERYTHING pushed to threaten it, i was at 5% and -237 tuv. that’s why i opted to block your takeover of norway instead…and that was the beginning of the end of the axis offensive drive.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

And of course I don’t disagree that BM is not perfectly balanced, since that is impossible. Nothing wrong with bidding if both players feel the need. I for one would have an easier time winning with Axis atm. Back-up to round 4 and push Bryansk and I’d say it would end as an Axis win.

ok i did the math for G4 all out bry and again i see 46% and -100 tuv. unless i’m doing this wrong?

[Adam514]

G5 attack on Bryansk (so G4 is the last turn buying for it) was 50%, and you bought air in the first few turns and you didn’t go to Belarus, which would have required a costly blocker in Smolensk even if Russia could hold Bryansk, which they can’t.

[Adam514]

(Also not a fan of G2dow especially without the Romania strafe, in BM Germany loses 5 and Russia gains 7 from the NOs. The territories taken aren’t worth it without the Romania stack since you don’t prevent the 5 Scandinavian inf from retreating.)

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

G5 attack on Bryansk (so G4 is the last turn buying for it) was 50%, and you bought air in the first few turns and you didn’t go to Belarus, which would have required a costly blocker in Smolensk even if Russia could hold Bryansk, which they can’t.

well the only air i bought was 2 planes in round 3. i mean i was brutally efficient i thought, having bought 9 ground units G1, 14 mechs G2, and 7 G3…and on top of that i was marching in the fins. i mean if what you’re saying is that i need to buy NOTHING but ground for first 3 turns in order to crack thru bry, then well options for axis see very very narrow.

however, i do think that maybe my mistake was trying to break through the ukr route…i think that’s always a valid option in vanilla ed, but now after this game i see it’s no longer an option in BM.

[Adam514]

Either that or keep UK occupied so that they can’t have planes in range of Bryansk. Remember Russia also only bought defensive units, and UK could spare a lot of air (UK worked hard to get as many to reach Bryansk) and even then Germany could have broken through if they had gone to Belarus instead of Ukraine.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

(Also not a fan of G2dow especially without the Romania strafe, in BM Germany loses 5 and Russia gains 7 from the NOs. The territories taken aren’t worth it without the Romania stack since you don’t prevent the 5 Scandinavian inf from retreating.)

well see, there goes another otherwise valid opening from the german playbook. so against a strong allies player who is brutally efficient, we’re pretty much ruling out G1 and G2 as options. german drive, even with good luck, get stuck in their tracks and then gradually the gains begin to reverse.

idk man, i for one am not a fan of having very scripted opening options. one of the great things about global is the DOW mechanism and not knowing when an opponent will declare and strike. really hope we’re wrong and G1 and G2 are still options.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

Either that or keep UK occupied so that they can’t have planes in range of Bryansk. Remember Russia also only bought defensive units, and UK could spare a lot of air (UK worked hard to get as many to reach Bryansk) and even then Germany could have broken through if they had gone to Belarus instead of Ukraine.

well if germany is pushing as hard as i was to break through russia, then UK is safe in the atlantic so it can invest heavily in the med and be ready to aid moscow, exactly as you did in this game. i chose to take what i can, which was gib. egypt seemed impregnable (again, considering my full german focus on the russians).

if we are saying that ukr is no longer a viable option, that one must always break thru via bel, then again we’ve got more limited options in this version (feels more scripted)

[Adam514]

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

(Also not a fan of G2dow especially without the Romania strafe, in BM Germany loses 5 and Russia gains 7 from the NOs. The territories taken aren’t worth it without the Romania stack since you don’t prevent the 5 Scandinavian inf from retreating.)

well see, there goes another otherwise valid opening from the german playbook. so against a strong allies player who is brutally efficient, we’re pretty much ruling out G1 and G2 as options. german drive, even with good luck, get stuck in their tracks and then gradually the gains begin to reverse.

idk man, i for one am not a fan of having very scripted opening options. one of the great things about global is the DOW mechanism and not knowing when an opponent will declare and strike. really hope we’re wrong and G1 and G2 are still options.

I definitely agree that earlier Gdows should be options, and I do agree that they are nowhere close to G3 and G4, but kid doesn’t see it yet unfortunately. I would either give Russia an NO for trades with Germany or reduce the +5 German NO for being at peace with Russia.

On another note, this game was very far from scripted, and all my turns took a lot longer than usual with the fleet action in Europe. Without my Syrian airbase and with a more naval-agressive Japan taking islands I think your Europe fleets would have paid off.

[axis-dominion]

anyway, gotta run before wife divorces me for being on this all day  :lol: :lol:

i will say this, BM is still FAR SUPERIOR to vanilla in many ways, and it’s definitely more balanced, as vanilla axis are crazily overpowered. however, i do feel there does need to be more thought given to somehow making other options more viable while still keeping it as balanced as possible. i for one don’t like feeling limited in the opening playbooks, feeling like the game is scripted for the first few turns mostly

just my humble opinions.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

(Also not a fan of G2dow especially without the Romania strafe, in BM Germany loses 5 and Russia gains 7 from the NOs. The territories taken aren’t worth it without the Romania stack since you don’t prevent the 5 Scandinavian inf from retreating.)

well see, there goes another otherwise valid opening from the german playbook. so against a strong allies player who is brutally efficient, we’re pretty much ruling out G1 and G2 as options. german drive, even with good luck, get stuck in their tracks and then gradually the gains begin to reverse.

idk man, i for one am not a fan of having very scripted opening options. one of the great things about global is the DOW mechanism and not knowing when an opponent will declare and strike. really hope we’re wrong and G1 and G2 are still options.

…

On another note, this game was very far from scripted, and all my turns took a lot longer than usual with the fleet action in Europe. Without my Syrian airbase and with a more naval-agressive Japan taking islands I think your Europe fleets would have paid off.

yes precisely that! it didn’t feel scripted precisely because i did a G2 (like the previous game when i did a G1, it too didn’t feel scripted)–G1 and G2 are far less common, but if in the end they just aren’t as viable, then we end up with feeling like we only have G3 and G4 as options–invoking a feeling of it being scripted, particularly in the opening rounds.

[Adam514]

Haha understood.

I feel like BM is less scripted than vanilla, be it early or late game, it’s just that the same things that worked in vanilla don’t necessarily work in BM, and some stuff works in BM and not in vanilla. The only thing I see an issue with atm is that early Gdows are not viable.

I will pass on your wish to kid and hopefully he will see the error in his ways  :wink:.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

I feel like BM is less scripted than vanilla, be it early or late game, it’s just that the same things that worked in vanilla don’t necessarily work in BM, and some stuff works in BM and not in vanilla. The only thing I see an issue with atm is that early Gdows are not viable.

well i think we agree then! all i’m saying too is that if we somehow address this concern about G1 and G2–without ruining the balance it has achieved–then we can see a richer variety of openings and therefore the game feels less scripted.

my opinion is basically this:

in an EXPERT vs EXPERT game, we should strive to make ALL DOW combo options viable: G1-G4 and J1-J4 and any combo thereof, as well as make neutral crush still viable as an actual strategy (not just when getting desperate), and so on. NOT AN EASY THING TO DO!! but i’m just saying we should strive for that.

[Adam514]

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

I feel like BM is less scripted than vanilla, be it early or late game, it’s just that the same things that worked in vanilla don’t necessarily work in BM, and some stuff works in BM and not in vanilla. The only thing I see an issue with atm is that early Gdows are not viable.

well i think we agree then! all i’m saying too is that if we somehow address this concern about G1 and G2–without ruining the balance it has achieved–then we can see a richer variety of openings and therefore the game feels less scripted.

my opinion is basically this:

in an EXPERT vs EXPERT game, we should strive to make ALL DOW combo options viable: G1-G4 and J1-J4 and any combo thereof, as well as make neutral crush still viable as an actual strategy (not just when getting desperate), and so on. NOT AN EASY THING TO DO!! but i’m just saying we should strive for that.

Haha having every combo viable is impossible (for example G1-J1 spells death for Germany because the point of G1 is to focus on Russia without interference, and J1 goes against that strategy), but I understand what you mean.

Neutral crush is too viable imo, I almost did it in our game (when your Italian fleet was vulnerable in 93, UK air attacks it and lands in Spain).

[-Pete]

how bout we just ban adam from league play, should solve most balance issues… you glorious bastard.

[axis-dominion]

Yah i know I was about to buy some German carriers and load them up to keep my navy viable in the med until I noticed that option of landing in Spain. Haha that would’ve been a huge massacre! Yah the Syrian base was brilliant. Threatened everything. Changed the game for sure.

@Adam514:

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

I feel like BM is less scripted than vanilla, be it early or late game, it’s just that the same things that worked in vanilla don’t necessarily work in BM, and some stuff works in BM and not in vanilla. The only thing I see an issue with atm is that early Gdows are not viable.

well i think we agree then! all i’m saying too is that if we somehow address this concern about G1 and G2–without ruining the balance it has achieved–then we can see a richer variety of openings and therefore the game feels less scripted.

my opinion is basically this:

in an EXPERT vs EXPERT game, we should strive to make ALL DOW combo options viable: G1-G4 and J1-J4 and any combo thereof, as well as make neutral crush still viable as an actual strategy (not just when getting desperate), and so on. NOT AN EASY THING TO DO!! but i’m just saying we should strive for that.

Haha having every combo viable is impossible (for example G1-J1 spells death for Germany because the point of G1 is to focus on Russia without interference, and J1 goes against that strategy), but I understand what you mean.

Neutral crush is too viable imo, I almost did it in our game (when your Italian fleet was vulnerable in 93, UK air attacks it and lands in Spain).

[axis-dominion]

@-Pete:

how bout we just ban adam from league play, should solve most balance issues… you glorious b��t��d.

Lol probably easiest and fastest way to achieve balance

[axis-dominion]

agree neutrals is probably going to prove too powerful for allies in BM, I mean they already make a lot of $$$ so then add the neutral income to that!

If it wasn’t for the threat of taking over Spain for a landing spot for the Brits, I would’ve bought more German ships in med and been able to keep your fleet out pretty much, and possibly even make Syria less of a long term option for u as well.

@Adam514:

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

I feel like BM is less scripted than vanilla, be it early or late game, it’s just that the same things that worked in vanilla don’t necessarily work in BM, and some stuff works in BM and not in vanilla. The only thing I see an issue with atm is that early Gdows are not viable.

well i think we agree then! all i’m saying too is that if we somehow address this concern about G1 and G2–without ruining the balance it has achieved–then we can see a richer variety of openings and therefore the game feels less scripted.

my opinion is basically this:

in an EXPERT vs EXPERT game, we should strive to make ALL DOW combo options viable: G1-G4 and J1-J4 and any combo thereof, as well as make neutral crush still viable as an actual strategy (not just when getting desperate), and so on. NOT AN EASY THING TO DO!! but i’m just saying we should strive for that.

Haha having every combo viable is impossible (for example G1-J1 spells death for Germany because the point of G1 is to focus on Russia without interference, and J1 goes against that strategy), but I understand what you mean.

Neutral crush is too viable imo, I almost did it in our game (when your Italian fleet was vulnerable in 93, UK air attacks it and lands in Spain).

[axis-dominion]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 2 fighters; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            2 fighters moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 99 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from Western Germany to 99 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Tobruk to 96 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 96 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 99 Sea Zone to Cyprus
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
                  Italians take Western Ukraine from Russians
            1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Ukraine

Combat - Italians
            Battle in 99 Sea Zone
                Italians attack with 1 destroyer, 6 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                British defend with 1 submarine
                Italians win, taking 99 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer, 6 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 1 submarine
            Battle in Cyprus

Non Combat Move - Italians
            6 fighters moved from 99 Sea Zone to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Yugoslavia
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy
            1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Tobruk to 96 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 96 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Algeria to 94 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 94 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 95 Sea Zone to Southern Italy

Place Units - Italians
            2 fighters placed in Southern Italy

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 14 PUs; end with 16 PUs total
            Objective Italians 5 Control Convoy Lanes: Italians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 19 PUs

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