Probably because its based on a time frame. If you have inf with these landings then they have established a landing. Maybe both sides suck at hitting.
I like where attacking art and tanks get no 1st round attacks and attacking ships bombardment hit art and or a motorized unit first. If non then a inf.
Also when there is a landing most Inf won’t be on the beachhead. They’ll be dug in further back.
Useless Land
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Larry probably did. And then decided to make forward islands worthless and back water islands worth a lot to secure Japanese income for a while.
Still doesn’t make it right. All the islands should at least be worth 1 IPC in my mind.
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i think the fundamental problem with the design of the game is that economy (or income) is used as an incentive to take and hold territory when i don’t think that’s realisitc. Example: Germany’s economy wasn’t cut to 25% of what is was in 1942 when the Aliies had Germany surrounded, but in the game that’s what it would be (Germany starts at 40 and the territory of Germany is worth 10). I don’t think that economy is the right incentive to use for taking enemy territory. Maybe something like victory city points for every territory, obviously having some territories worth many more vcps than others but still having all territories worth at least 1.
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Money isn’t the only determining factor.
If it was, then capitals would be near worthless. They’re heavily defended and not worth the return on investment (costs you much more in man power to take then you get in return)
Also, if it was just money, America would sit and not spend a time. Let the Axis take over the world, and just before they start winning, launch an all out attack with 400 IPCs worth of equipment. (Imagine the invasion force America could build up with 10 rounds and starting equipment to play with!)
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Also, if it was just money, America would sit and not spend a time. Let the Axis take over the world, and just before they start winning, launch an all out attack with 400 IPCs worth of equipment. (Imagine the invasion force America could build up with 10 rounds and starting equipment to play with!)
It would be impressive, but short lived. While the US spent 10 turns getting 400 IPC’s for that 1-turn hyper-build up, the Axis would be collecting about 120 IPC PER TURN!
As far as island values…
Midway should not be worth anything. Heck, Midway needs to be totally supplied with EVERYTHING, including fresh water. The owner of Midway should actually have to PAY for it to represent the cost of supplying the island… :-D -
@ncscswitch:
Also, if it was just money, America would sit and not spend a time. Let the Axis take over the world, and just before they start winning, launch an all out attack with 400 IPCs worth of equipment. (Imagine the invasion force America could build up with 10 rounds and starting equipment to play with!)
It would be impressive, but short lived. While the US spent 10 turns getting 400 IPC’s for that 1-turn hyper-build up, the Axis would be collecting about 120 IPC PER TURN!
As far as island values…
Midway should not be worth anything. Heck, Midway needs to be totally supplied with EVERYTHING, including fresh water. The owner of Midway should actually have to PAY for it to represent the cost of supplying the island… :-DFunny you should metion fresh water. Because of fresh water, the US Navy was able to find out that the Japs were intending to attack Midway. I guess the supply system isnt just for sending goodies to soldiers to fight. :wink:
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@ncscswitch:
Also, if it was just money, America would sit and not spend a time. Let the Axis take over the world, and just before they start winning, launch an all out attack with 400 IPCs worth of equipment. (Imagine the invasion force America could build up with 10 rounds and starting equipment to play with!)
It would be impressive, but short lived. While the US spent 10 turns getting 400 IPC’s for that 1-turn hyper-build up, the Axis would be collecting about 120 IPC PER TURN!
As far as island values…
Midway should not be worth anything. Heck, Midway needs to be totally supplied with EVERYTHING, including fresh water. The owner of Midway should actually have to PAY for it to represent the cost of supplying the island… :-DYou are assuming there’s no Russia or Brition. Germany and Japan can only collect a maximum of 70 for the first turn, how can they possibly be at 120 per turn for 10 turns, otherwise?
Whereas, America starts at 42 per turn, figure it’s going to loose the chinas, that’s still 38 per turn.
1* 42 = 42
1* 40 = 40
8* 38 = 304
+
Start of 42=
428 IPCs on round 10.
Meanwhile, the axis have to use their income to attempt to take Russia and England. But we’re assuming its a game for money…well, what would be the result of an untaxed sudden impact of 428 IPCs in new units AND America’s starting units on a depleted german/japanese army/navy/air force?
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What I am saying is that US can drop their 400 IPC’s.
But if the US stays completely out of it for 10 turns, and waits for the Axis to come to their door (as you stated in your original post), then by that time the Axis will be collecting $120 per turn. In 3 turns, that 400 IPC build is toast. And the Axis still has all of their remaining units from taking USSR and England to boot.
Last, but not least, USA has a build limit of 22 units…
You are going to have to buy a lot of BB’s to even be able to SPEND that much money in 1 turn… -
What the heck is this 400 IPC for usa thing?
You mean after 10 turns of saving?
Whats the point? nobody is gonna play like that anyway.
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@Imperious:
What the heck is this 400 IPC for usa thing?
You mean after 10 turns of saving?
Whats the point? nobody is gonna play like that anyway.
That was my point. Someone said the game was about finances. I was saying it was never about finances. You could save a huge amount of cash with america, but that’s not going to win.
Then again, Germany/Japan might make 120 a round, but after America’s been building for 10 rounds without any threat to it, and without squanderig resources, Europe’s going to be turned into a wasteland in one round. :)
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I am going to chalk this up to another of your ideas that I would love to prove wrong…
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@ncscswitch:
I am going to chalk this up to another of your ideas that I would love to prove wrong…
the idea isn’t to stock pile cash only, Switch. You spend it, you just don;t use the resources on attack…then you have the MOST resources at round 10 and “win” in a financial only game.
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Jen, you are again over-extrapolating my (and others) previous comments.
It is not JUST about economies. It is about units and position also. But it is damn hard to get units and position if you are pinned to your capital with an income of 8, 10, or 12. You need income to build units.
Even if it were JUST about economies, then in your scenario… the “sleeping Giant” sleeping in for a half score of turns… then economy is STILL not out of it, because the US would ahve an income of 38, the Axis an income of 128.
The US cannot sit out the war until Moscow and London have fallen. Otherwise, for those 10 turns, the Allies are being out-spent and out-produced by 70-80+ to 50 ish; and the longe rit goes, the worse it gets for the Allies.
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Saving money is the same as “losing Tempo” You have to spend every penny possible in order to pace the value of your enemy. You can’t win a war sitting on your hands. They must be filled with tools to do the job and win the war. Holding back is like telling employees to take a rest and do nothing.
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Of all the nations on the board, the only one that doesnt have to spend it all every round is america.
This is especially true in Classic, but it holds in revised too. After all, nothing says america has to build fleet/land units. They could build bombers for SBR on Japan/Germany and tech. Or they could just sit there building fleet until Japan get’s nervous.
Now, don’t over extrapolate here, I’m not saying it’s the BEST course of action, but america is hte one nation not immediately under threat of serious assault in the first two or three rounds of the game. (I don’t count China/Sink, since without them you’re still earning more then you were in Classic.)
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i think the fundamental problem with the design of the game is that economy (or income) is used as an incentive to take and hold territory when i don’t think that’s realistic. Example: Germany’s economy wasn’t cut to 25% of what is was in 1942 when the Allies had Germany surrounded, but in the game that’s what it would be (Germany starts at 40 and the territory of Germany is worth 10). I don’t think that economy is the right incentive to use for taking enemy territory. Maybe something like victory city points for every territory, obviously having some territories worth many more vcps than others but still having all territories worth at least 1.
I never said that income is the only incentive, just that it is an incentive. It would be ridiculous to say that it’s the only incentive, but you can’t deny that players will attempt an attack just to collect a couple extra IPCs and take a couple away from the opponent. Other incentives for attacking might include positioning units, trying to surprise your opponent with a trick maneuver, getting closer to attack an enemy capital, etc…
I’m getting the feeling that some people can be quick to put words in my mouth and criticize me for the words that they put there. Let’s all remain careful to criticize so as to not waste time with arguments where no one is of the opposite point of view and also to not discourage others to post new ideas.
I am saying that an unrealistically disproportionate large amount of IPCs are contained in territories away from the capital. Realistically, the capital of a nation should have a much higher proportion of the IPC total, and all other territories controlled by that nation should have a proportionally lower amount.
If this change is made, then the Allies economic advantage will last longer (specifically, that it will last until one of the Allied capitals is captured). This is an advantage to the Allies. Therefore, we should also propose another change that will be either an advantage to the Axis or a disadvantage to the Allies (some people see that as the same thing and others don’t… let’s not get into an argument over it).
Maybe we could restrict US and UK infantry purchases, which would be realistic too. How exactly we want to do that I’m leaving open to interpretation right now. Any other ideas?
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I’m sorry but as far as i can see you just quoted yourself and responded to your own post… Am i missing something?
Anyway can you make some time to brefly scan our latest draft that tekky has come up with?
Its that rapid share file thing. Just down load that and comment.
Your somewhat limited time and your skills are wasted in this thread. The useless land thing will be addressed under phase 3 where any map changes go. And we allready decided to give these pacific island some value plus other things.
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I just quoted myself so people could more easily read what I originally posted which for some reason caused an argument. That’s all.
I’ll read the Phase 2 stuff, but I just want to be clear…
Axis and Allies Revised: Historic Edition (AARHE) Phase 2 Draft
Discussion of document aspects in here.
Discussion of rules in the respective threads.http://rapidshare.de/files/26442741/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_200607XX.rtf.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/26624016/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060722.rtf.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/27800423/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060802.rtf.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/28263637/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060805.rtf.html
is the last one (http://rapidshare.de/files/28263637/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060805.rtf.html) the only one i need to read?
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Yes its probably the one with the largest file.
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if you haven’t downloaded yet
http://rapidshare.de/files/29374405/Axis___Allies_Historic_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060813.rtf.html
uploaded a newer one just for you
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Our naval fighters have a reduced range compared to normal fighters. 4 vs. 2.
We’ve also taken the typical air movement restriction of not able to use X-1 movement points to get to your destination. You can only use X/2.
So the Pacific Islands now have a degree of importance.
You can no longer fly a FTR from Japan to Midway. Normal even with Long in Non-Combat with LRA tech.
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