Paris or Bust

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

I definitely agree with Bill that to attack you don’t want two powers’ armies, especially when those two separate armies would need to attack one TT. The defender gets to shoot at your guys twice, essentially.

[WILD BILL]

Yeah, I think it’s the best way to go taking the bulk of the German army one way, and the Austrian army the other. You just have more attack capabilities (punch). I think it is important to have a small 12+ unit ally army with you though because it can be very helpful, and gives you more options. Territory grabs that cause a distraction to the enemy, watching your flank, merging to back down your enemy etc…. Its also cool for that smal force to have some air to sacrifice a couple ground units just to force a dog fight to kill off enemy ftrs so your larger force can gain air superiority.

[zanetheinsane]

@WILD:

To my surprise the English didn’t spend a dime in London first few turns, and spent everything in India (yeah the Turks were in trouble). I thought ok, this just might work, its the Germans vs the French with no out side help… I don’t understand how the French can loose 1/2 their main territories, and still have over 20 IPCs because they make it up w/neutrals?..

…Anyway the French didn’t have much help, but were able to defend against the entire might of the German army…

The IPC imbalance in our games has been incredibly noticeable. Just starting off the game France will easily make +5 IPCs from Spanish Morroco, Portugal, and Belgium They will easily have Togoland and Kamerun soon enough, boosting them to well over 30 IPCs very early in the game. Britain will carve up Africa for a tidy bonus, will almost always hold Arabia due to the ability to spend any amount of IPCs they wish in India, which usually means Afghanistan, Persia, and Mesopotamia are theirs for the taking (and keeping).

UK usually ends up making around 40 IPCs that the Central Powers have zero chance of taking away.

Unless Germany and Austria start carving up Russia very quickly the Central Powers start the game off making significantly less IPCs than the Allies, and that doesn’t even include USA. If you count the USA the balance gets even more lopsided.

I realize that the CPs start with more units than the Allies but that is easily made up for the fact that the Allies would have to be lobotomized to not be able to rule every sea zone in the game by Turn 3-4 max. The UK can throw every single IPC they want on offense because all of their territories are unassailable.

Unlike 1940 where the Axis start with a huge head of steam and have to keep going to avoid running out of resources, the CPs in this game seem to start down and out and have to claw and drag themselves out of hole just to get on par with the Allies. It is very frustrating to play as them and just continually get stopped and beat up at every front.

[Vondelaer]

I think you hit the nail on the head Zane.

Paris or bust may look viable at first glance, but the economics of the game pretty much dictate that it won’t work. When the CP head west and try to hold the line against Russia they will barely be able to achieve economic parity with the Allies, let alone superiority.

There’s just no enough to be gained by the CP’s on the western front. Even if you’ve advanced to the gates of Paris Germany will only have gained between 6 and 10 IPC and even that would barely dent France’s income. When you factor in the African IPC’s Germany will lose over the first few turns, the viability of this strategy becomes bleaker still.

There’s much more to be had in Russia. Some 13 IPC’s for all the CP’s combined. And another 12 if you play without the revolution. On top of that, you will have taken out Russia and have reduced the Allied economy by 25 IPC. That just won’t happen when you attack France.

[BJCard]

Point taken Vondelaer-

What about a slight modification to the ‘Paris or Bust’ strat-

Concentrate on Russia and France… Ignore Italy?  As in, send Austrian reinforcements across northern italy to southern france to aid the german thrust in belgium/northern france?

[Vondelaer]

Sounds like a good idea BJ.

From the write ups in this topic it looks as though Germany can’t quite capture Paris, but perhaps an Austrian assist will give the CP’s enough oomph to do it.

The Austrian force would have to be pretty big to get cross Northern Italy and still be able to have an impact on the battle for Paris though. And that could spell disaster on the eastern front and in the Balkans.

Actually, as I was writing a had an idea. What if we turned the original idea of Paris or bust around? and let Germany go after Russia the way it usually does, while Austria goes all out in the west to eliminate Italy?

Even with minimal help from Austria and the Ottmans down south, Germany should still be able to force Russia into revolution. Meanwhile, Italy won’t hold out long against a determined Austria.

Obviously, the CP’s would still have to take Paris in order to win, but with now that Italy and Russia have been removed fromt he equasion they ought to be in a good position to do so.

[Witt]

Not sure BJCard.
Game I played and lost, I never held Tuscany and I think Italy remaining in the game cost me in the long run. I will go all out on Italy next time.
It was my German Western Front weakness that allowed France to reinforce through Piemonte and eventually contest Munich for the remainder of the game.
I do not want a repeat, but agree France may not miss 6 IPCs; they really can pick up 4-6 more in Africa as observed.
CPs have  to be contesting Paris early on to have a chance of France first.
Damn Russia!

[Koningstiger]

Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.

" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",

[BJCard]

If Italy continually retreats to Rome and the US lands troops in Rome on turn 5, even a concerted attack by Austria on Italy most likely cannot get Rome.  In both the games I’ve played I did just that- send the bulk of my Army at Italy to no avail.  It just takes too long to get to Rome. The best I’ve done is contest Rome- Italy can still build a couple Infantry and the US is landing 4+ units there per turn.

However if instead of going for Rome, you send your initial Venice/Tyrolia/Trieste/Vienna armies straight across northern Italy to get some pressure on Burgundy/Marseilles by turn 3, France will have to split up its forces a bit.  This could help Germany enough to have a chance at Paris on turn 4 or 5.

Of course, after the initial armies are sent to France Austria would have to concentrate on making sure Italy doesn’t grow too big.

Germany essentially has to split up its starting forces to fight Russia and France- Austria sends most of its Galicia and Budapest armies against Russia (with small force fighting in Serbia).  Ottoman sends Constantinople and Bulgaria armies to Russia.

It could work-

[BJCard]

@Koningstiger:

Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.

" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",

Any ally can activate Albania- the units activated are Italian though; same for any other country that can be activated.

[Koningstiger]

@BJCard:

@Koningstiger:

Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.

" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",

Any ally can activate Albania- the units activated are Italian though; same for any other country that can be activated.

OK, thanks. This is again slightly different then from how friendly allies can be activated in Europe 40. If Italy moves into say Bulgaria there (which is also allowed) then the Bulgarians become Italian pieces and not German ones. It’d be more logical, IMHO only to allow the italians to activate Albania, Russians Romania etc.

BTW, I usually attack Albanai with some Austrian pices on round 1 for the extra IPCs (just two but you should be able to hold it for a number of trounds…) Does anyone else do this?

[BJCard]

I have thought about attacking Albania with Austria, but I feel like sending maximum troops west is a better proposition.  Perhaps playing an economic game is better for the CPs.

[Witt]

It could work-
–-------------Yes General!

I am wary  of your Northern Pass(not Tuscany drive) as I did it thinking I would help the Germans North of me and maybe get a shot at Paris! (a forlorn hope).
I lost the Austrians in Piemonte, then Venice, then had to keep evicting the French from Tyrolia. Italy meantime never dipped below 16IPCs.

I will not be attacking Switzerland this time.

I do wish you luck, of course.

[Witt]

Koningstiger: I worry that Austria attacking Albania is the same as amphibiously landing in Tuscany: it cannot be held. Albania is in SZ 17(Italy’s sphere) and they can always drop two men and bombard(Austrian Artillery would lessen the impact of course). UK and France probably want their navies in that SZ too, therefore eliminating any Austrian incursion out of the Adriatic.