@WILD-BILL Eqqman is correct.
Is Germany screwed?
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Well, yes, but I’m assuming that when Larry says all new units are placed in the capital he means it, however retrograde the idea is.
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If rail movement was done, however it would be done, would be clunky, only because it would add an extra layer to the game.
(spare me your simplified version of rail movement, the ONLY simple version would be a “strategic redeployment phase” where a power can move X units triple distance or something)Production in all original contiguous 2+ IPC territories would have been a GREAT stopgap to avoid all this insanity.
Because I get what you are saying about the long march to the Western Front.HOWEVER your map may be wrong, Hanover might not exist and be part of the Berlin territory, allowing German units to shuttle right into Ruhr or Alsace.
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Larry specifically mentions Hanover, which can only be where I’ve placed it. The borders may be slightly different, i.e. Alsace may have a border with Tyrolia, but I’m sure this map is essentially correct for Germany.
There is nothing clunky about my rail rule. You simply make all combat moves first, then move remaining units by unlimited rail. This really is how it was done - Germany DID move entire armies by rail across the length of the country in the space of a week - why do people have a problem with that?
Again, the entire character of warfare in this period was shaped by the ability to quickly reinforce front lines by utilizing the rail networks. Without it, the game more closely resembles the Napoleonic conflict.
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I agree with you Flashman. Simple and effective non combat Rail movement rules could of been made for this game. It could still work out well. We’ll have to see when we get the game.
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Germany did have a very good rail network. A big reason for some of the big defeats Germany inflicted on Russia was due to the ability to move large amounts of troops by rail to come up on certain fronts. That was also something that worried the main Russian General (forget his name now) who was planning the big Russian offensive in 1916.
Perhaps that should be reflected in the game somehow, like an extra space in NCM.Brusliov
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Perhaps it is and we just don’t know it yet……Perhaps units have unlimited movement amongst contiguous original territory. (or maybe just Germany does because the Ottomans don’t deserve such a rule)
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Even if playtesting was shoddy, it’s really hard to say that Germany could be screwed because testing, setup, and rules were all done without rail movement. I don’t see why Germany would be any more screwed without rail movement than with it; the quality of the testing is what really determines whether they are screwed or not.
One the other hand, single-round combat could really make the dice much more important that we are used to.
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O.K. we’ll see how it plays out.
But don’t say you weren’t warned.
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I think it’ll be o.k. It doesn’t look like France has very little artillery to start off with so they won’t be making sweeps into the Ruhr or Alsace right out of the gates and Germany will have a bigger economy than France. Plus when Russia gets out of the game, Germany will have all the reinforcements coming in from the east.
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Maybe something like:
After all combat is concluded, any units still in your capital may be moved by rail to any area you or your Allies control.
Perhaps also:
Any units (after combat) may be railed BACK to the capital to replenish the reserve. You cannot abandon areas.
So, you can choose to keep units in the capital as a “mobile reserve”.
This is before placement of new units.
And consider this:
A large German army finally marches through the streets of Moscow having secured victory on the Eastern Front. Fine.
It now takes this army SEVEN TURNS to march all the way to the Western Front, by which time they find themselves confronted by a large American army idly sampling the fleshpots of gay Paris. They’ll be lucky if they don’t find them hanging out in Berlin.
GERMANY
NEEDS
TRAINS
http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/mil.html
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In the absence of rails I intend to buy transports (at least one on G1). Transports provide flexibility. If the western Allies goof, you hit them. If the Russians goof, you hit them. If neither of them goof, you grab Norway, Sweden, and Finland for their resources.
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Can Germany afford to add that many enemy units?
Attacking a 2 IPC neutral adds 13 IPC’s worth of enemy units, so you have to hold the tt for SEVEN TURNS to show a profit. Meanwhile your own forces are more widely spread and vulnerable, and if the enemy captures the tt its income goes to them.
You have to think very carefully before invading non-aligned neutrals - perhaps Holland is worth taking for the strategic position; the Scandinavian trio may be more trouble than they’re worth.
It might depend of if Allies are allowed to invade neutrals (I think they will, but don’t think they should be).
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Well judging by larrys first reports powers start with HUGE manpower reserves….that will dwindle out later.
If you are going to attack a neutral, do it early while you have the numbers, and so you have a lot of turns to collect income from it. -
Can Germany afford to add that many enemy units?
Attacking a 2 IPC neutral adds 13 IPC’s worth of enemy units, so you have to hold the tt for SEVEN TURNS to show a profit. Meanwhile your own forces are more widely spread and vulnerable, and if the enemy captures the tt its income goes to them.
You have to think very carefully before invading non-aligned neutrals - perhaps Holland is worth taking for the strategic position; the Scandinavian trio may be more trouble than they’re worth.
It might depend of if Allies are allowed to invade neutrals (I think they will, but don’t think they should be).
Maybe I misread, but doesn’t Germany only have to make up its IPC losses in terms of casualties? If they lost 2 inf, which would be expected if they bring enough to wipe out in 1 round (and maybe they can’t), that’s really only 3 rounds of make-up.
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Flashman,
I realize you are a huge advocate of rail movement, but wouldn’t the advantage be too great for the Central Powers? As in, all the CP armies could be at one end of the continent and then the other on a different turn? That would be a huge headache for the Allies. You’d have to let the Allies have rail movement too- It take France and England two turns to get to the original front (vice Germany’s 3).Also, do you advocate changing every Axis & Allies game? None of them have rail movement, and hence have the same problem you are describing as AA1914. I’m playing a 1940 game right now where Germany can’t magically move its victorious West Front Army to the East in one turn- thank god or Russia would be dead!
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GERMANY
NEEDS
TRAINS
Again, putting aside the fact the I like the idea of rail movement, playtesting would have to comically atrocious for this to be true.
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Well its either the game is playtested properly or its not and movement needs a boost. I hardly think Larry would let yet another game come out where the game is basically broken due to limited playtesting.
There is no need for these house rules till we get more info on the game. Something so simple like movement issues would have been addressed before during development.
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Flash and Oz you’re both pushing similar rules/idea’s of units just miraculously showing up near the front or in remote areas that won’t be in the game. It would be nearly impossible to balance it IMO.
Flash I like the idea of a rail rule (maybe even just as a house rule), but as I see it, if rail was involved at any capacity then we would have seen evidence of it in one of the 3 reports we got.
Oz, same thing, if there was a rule to allow a power to mobilize or recruit units other then in their capital in a territory based on IPC value we would have got a glimpse of that by now. Other then the possibility of Bombay being able to mobilize ground units at some level (we’ll see when UKs turn rolls around if there is a special rule) I can’t see either of these being in the game.
You’re going to have to rely on transports, and/or a steady slow moving line of reinforcements constantly moving forward from your central industrial power plants (capitals).
Flash, you’re right to a point that w/o rail, or the ability for extra moves when staying with-in your controlled territories the CP will be hard pressed keeping a steady flow of units moving to the trenches, but it could also be to much of a benefit to them if they could move even double time when not engaging the enemy. It will take looking a couple turns into the future to decide which direction for German units to head leaving Berlin.
Larry also said that the German starting force is large enough to move into any of the neighboring enemy territory and either take it, or not fear the counter attack. I know this can’t last more then a couple turns because they will be facing multiple enemies in France (including Italy), so they are going to need that steady flow of units to recoup losses. The French will be losing ground or territories will become contested (income), and although they can build right at the front, they will be coming in lesser numbers. The UK will still need to transport units over to the French coast, then move them into position (will take 2-3 turns to get units over from London to the trenches), or try to establish a beach head in Belg or Hol which will be overwhelmed by German reinforcements moving up.
BTW I (as many) will be messing around with house rules for this game after playing it for a while OOB. Both these ideas are very interesting. Rail would most likely help the CP more, but the ability to mobilize units based on IPC value could help the allies more (depends on values of the territories). Together they might off set each other enough to work in tandem LOL.
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I haven’t just dreamed up rail movement for this game, I’ve been advocating it for years in WWII versions for precisely the same reasons.
Virtually all worthwhile variants of Axis and Allies include it in some form, usually with some restriction due to “rail points” or “rail capacity” which make it too complicated in my view.
Yes, for the CPs it is very powerful, but it is also absolutely necessary if you’re going to depict a reasonably accurate version of the strategic situation they faced in the war. They would not have fought it in the way they did, if fact would probably not have started it at all, without the prospect of being able to switch armies rapidly from front to front. Such units are not “magically appearing at the front”, they’re using the exact method that real armies used in every major war for about 100 years.
If you really believe that German units capturing Moscow should then take SEVEN TURNS to get back into the fight in the west then frankly you can’t want a game they have any chance of winning.
The most absurd aspect A&A movement is the tank drives - all-tank armies charging the enemy because they’re the only ground units that can move at a reasonable rate. In fact, tanks did not drive to the battlefronts, they took the train like every other ground unit. At least we’ll be spared that in 1914. We will, won’t we?
By all means allow the Allies to move by the same rail rules, but a look at the map tells you that they need it far less. Russia, but only when on the attack, maybe Italy need a 2-space move to reinforce Venice.
But G. & A. are doomed to fight two-front wars unlike the Allies. U.K and France can send troops to the Middle East if they want, but they can do that by sea.
Consider:
New French units can reach Bulgaria in 2 moves.
New German units can reach Bulgaria in 4 moves, or if Russia controls Galicia or Romania 5.
Even new Austrians take 3 moves to get there.
The Allies can runs rings around the CPs by moving their forces around the periphery of central Europe. In effect, they can use against the enemy the very thing that was in reality its greatest asset - the speed of its internal transport network. Not only does Germany have whole stacks sitting uselessly “in transit” every turn, but the Allies know by the second when they’ll arrive at their all-too-obvious destination.
The game can be artificially balanced by giving G. & A. large stacks of starting infantry, but if it hasn’t used them to take at least one capital by turn 4 they might as well surrender.
The Allies will have to be playing like complete puddings to lose this one.
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I get what you are saying. But how can you say the CP will be easy to defeat when every A&A theatre or world game since revised have been pro-axis? They have the initiative early in the game. I bet the CP will win the majority of games in AA1914 to- Larry seems to give the German based team plenty of strength in every game.
If you want to talk about armies moving slowly through country, what about navies? You could easily make the assumption that ships should be able to move more than 2 spaces/turn. In fact, I think it should be more like 4. With rail movement how can you redeploy troops several territories away, yet it take two or three turns of sea movement to get american troops across the atlantic?
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