UK barbarossa strategies

[questioneer]

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[Jennifer]

@questioneer:

Well look at what we have here…2 arrogant blabbers blowing their breath with no substance at all.

Both of you shut up and play a game against one another- maybe a best of 3 or 5 to settle it.

Talk, talk, talk…I guess that’s what forums are only good for.Â

I think I’d like to pop some corn and watch you two blowholes go at it- entertaining…fire up the TripleA!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Battlemap.  That way I know there were no games played with the TripleA dicey.  :P

Anyway, I think I just proved my point in a game on the forums.  England’s in too much dissarray to bloody well cook dinner, let alone fight the Japs or the Germs.  Australia’s fleetless and cannot have any of their NOs.  China’s obliterated, they have 2 infantry and 3 territories left, America’s split between two decisions - let the German’s win, or let the Japanese win.

Anyway, England, as I see it, still has the same basic choice, albeit, they have quite a bit more drama there for Germany to deal with (in case of Sea Lion.)  Either call Germany’s bluff and go whole hog for Africa/Med to neuter Italy (that still has not had their fleet combined so they have a prayer of a chance in the Med) or abandon the world and assure victory in London.  I suspect, if Germany has more than 7 transports in SZ 112/110 or 113, England’s going to run for home and hide behind their Scotish Skirts (sure…call them Kilts.)

[Noll]

TripleA dices can’t be manipulated, and you get mailed the dice results for every roll. That’s a good thing.

[Cow]

UK usually sinks sz 97 at 84%~ odds. 1 fighter 1 bomber off of uk comes down. the gib cruiser and fighter kills the lone destroyer. naval from egypt slam bb cruiser (and 3 fighters should you scramble).

If you sink 109 instead of 110, different allies players may have different responses in this scenario. Some may merge their fleet others may still do the same attack.

Merge is safer (as 2 air units are in range of UK from carrier and more air can be kept home).

Attacking is still a viable option. Both options are good calls that depend on player preference IMHO. Attacking usually results in Italy starting at 4 different fleets and having to decide which to kill. If germany does not sink anything, usually italy loses his last transport to naval + bomber + malta fighters if in range.

[theROCmonster]

I agree with COW. Russia needs A LOT of help. At least 6 more units. Would like seeing 1 tank 1 mech 1 art 3 infantry added at the least. Never seen Russia hold, and I only attack Russia with Germany. Too damn easy to just roll through Russia with no problem. Can’t stand it!

[Jennifer]

COW: If England attacks SZ 97, yes.  I sometimes lament Larry split the Italains even more, instead of consolidating them more, but it is what it is.

theROC: Exactly why you need to land in Northern Russia.  Check it, from Scotland (the closer of the two Englands) no fighters can get to Russia if you have Karelia, Leningrad, Arkhanglesk and Nenetsia.  That means they have to go:
A) Be Built
B) Fly to Africa
C) Fly to Alexandria / Sea
D. Fly to Persia
E) Fly to Moscow

That is a bit longer than England > Scotland > Nenetsia (or similar) > Mowscow and the psychological effect cannot be discounted either.

[Jennifer]

@Noll:

TripleA dices can’t be manipulated, and you get mailed the dice results for every roll. That’s a good thing.

It might be difficult, but as long as it’s a computer running the dice, it can always be manipulated.  Top that off with the first versions that could handle Revised literally getting whacko dice, it just makes me hesitant to use it. At least until I get my new computer going, install the software and play with it for a month recording dice results to ensure AA Guns get 15-19% hit ratios (it should be 17%)

I know the house dicey is pretty accurate, but I’ve been using it since forever.  FOE’s was as well, so is Frood’s calculator.  I didn’t rely on ANY of them without first testing them out.  It’s nothing personal, I just don’t want to fly 5 American Bombers over Berlin and have all 5 shot down by an AA Gun (Well, can’t anymore, limit 3, but you get the idea) when it should only be 1.  I used to get similar to that all the time in TripleA and Dogs of War.

[Cow]

triple a dice comes from a server unless you are using the internal roller (which is for solo games).

If bombers are doing air runs, the AA gun is not what shoots at them, the complex itself has a built in Anti Air system (means you don’t need to keep AA guns on your capital to prevent industrial bombing).

[theROCmonster]

So my question is where do we go from here on Russia? Because frankly I am tired of playing as the allies and just seeing russia so screwed so fast. Nothing he can do about it. At least in the other games of axis and allies a good Russian player could hold out for 10-20 rounds.

[Cow]

exploit the +3 NO off any original italian german or pro axis neutral russia claims.

iraq and the 4 starting italian african spots. you can kill what defends it with the other allies and not take the territory, leaving it for a russian mech or tank…. but you have to move stuff over it to defend it against a couple german suicide bombers.

then you just have to fly some stuff in to keep russia alive rounds 5-7. the NO money will keep russia pumping 10 inf a round for a long time and as long as you got shipments of some allied units coming, you will be fine.

[Jennifer]

@Cow:

triple a dice comes from a server unless you are using the internal roller (which is for solo games).

If bombers are doing air runs, the AA gun is not what shoots at them, the complex itself has a built in Anti Air system (means you don’t need to keep AA guns on your capital to prevent industrial bombing).

It’s still AA Guns.

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@theROCmonster:

So my question is where do we go from here on Russia? Because frankly I am tired of playing as the allies and just seeing russia so screwed so fast. Nothing he can do about it. At least in the other games of axis and allies a good Russian player could hold out for 10-20 rounds.

Personally?  I’ve been on record for a LONG TIME now, saying that Russia needs a tank in Yakut SSR.  It’s far enough from Japan that it will take more than one turn to do anything too them (and let’s face it, 99% of the time, Russia’s running from the Japan advance, so it’s more like an anchor for the defense.)  It’s far enough from Germany to be effectively ignored strategically for a good chunk of the pre-game.

I’d also like to see a few more Artillery, probably in Urals, Evenki and Timguska, just so they’re pushed back a little.

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@Cow:

exploit the +3 NO off any original italian german or pro axis neutral russia claims.
I’d like to see this NO only apply to mainland Europe.  Let’s face it, the NO is really about the collar nations, the BUFFER between Soviet territory and any European aggressor.  Russia only wanted these territories because it was invaded by the Kaiser, it was invaded by Napoleon and it was invaded by Hitler.  It was done being invaded!  (Not to mention Finland and Poland were historical enemies of the USSR/Russia as well.)

iraq and the 4 starting italian african spots. you can kill what defends it with the other allies and not take the territory, leaving it for a russian mech or tank…. but you have to move stuff over it to defend it against a couple german suicide bombers.
Ditto.  Russia might even go so far as to be banned from all non-European, non-Chinese or non-Russian territories.  It could be a negative NO, where Russia loses 5 IPC if it ends the turn on any territory that isn’t in that list, or on any friendly transport or aircraft carrier.

then you just have to fly some stuff in to keep russia alive rounds 5-7. the NO money will keep russia pumping 10 inf a round for a long time and as long as you got shipments of some allied units coming, you will be fine.
This is the crux of my argument that you need half those transports to land shit in the North to stop America and England from cheezing the game.  Hell, just for realism, I’d say Russia collects NOTHING if there are any forces in Moscow that are not Russian.  At least that will limit this move until Russia’s effectively gone already.

[Cow]

industrial complexes roll at all air bombing it, not just limited to 3.

I’d like to see this NO only apply to mainland Europe.  Let’s face it, the NO is really about the collar nations, the BUFFER between Soviet territory and any European aggressor.  Russia only wanted these territories because it was invaded by the Kaiser, it was invaded by Napoleon and it was invaded by Hitler.  It was done being invaded!  (Not to mention Finland and Poland were historical enemies of the USSR/Russia as well.)

I like the NO as it stands right now. Should someone take that away from me, I’d like russian naval in the black sea. Russian naval in the black sea sounds baller, like a destroyer and 2 cruisers sounds about right with a transport.

Screw tank in yakut, give me a bomber for russia.

Without the NO the axis would win everytime, in fact I will refuse to play allies with a gimped national objective… unless I got A) bigger bid B) black sea naval and bomber for russia.

[Guest]

If it turns out the Allies are consistently losing because Russia is too vulnerable and dies too early, then the easiest remedy will be one that does not involve setup changes.   Maybe give USSR the Advanced Artillery tech as a national advantage (i.e. each Soviet artillery supports 2 infantry or mechs).  Call it katyusha rockets or something.

[Cow]

nah, russia is pretty solid when he gets the NO from africa/iraq. Plus it is the only way LH could encourage italy to do some naval play.

[Jennifer]

A)  I don’t think Russia should be getting the NO for those.  It feels like an over-sight too me.
B)  It’s legal.  Cheezy, but legal.
C)  This really sucks for Italy.  I used to abandon Africa so that America couldnt get the IPC from Fr. Territories there AND conserve my strength AND not need a fleet (neutering the British attack since now it costs them time and materials and costs me nothing).  I used the addage that you only take what you need…now I NEED Iraq - so I suppose best thing there is to land as much as you can into Syria and stop the Russians.  I wonder if it’s possible to pull enough Russians out of Russia to effectively cost the Allies the game in their monosightedness of going for Algeria, Libya, Italian Somalialand, Ethiopia and Iraq?  It should be easy enough to get German planes down there for the short term to really bugger the Russians while Japan puts pressure on India to keep them away.
D.  I’d like to mention that the Northern Route is currently working and if coupled with a SERIOUS Italian push on Iraq drawing even more forces out of Russia proper, one might see Russia collapse under its own weight.

I can easily see Russia fighting in Nentsia, Novosibirsk, E. Poland, Caucasus and Timguska against the Italians, Germans and Japanese pretty easily, if they are really focused on Africa anyway.  At least it’s not as stupid cheesy as giving Russia +3 for Ireland (or Hainan, Formosa, Carolines, etc)

[Cow]

There is a reason why people take africa seriously with uk and drop that egypt minor down and hold it. Games are won or lost in africa sometimes.
~
russia should only have to bring at most 4 guys down (get 2 from persia). Considering they come back later, I say TOTALLY WORTH IT. :D
~
The only thing that kind of bothers me is russia in africa (the middle east is fine because of the oil), but the africa thing was not in the war.

However, I don’t think it was short sighted of an NO. It is a national objective that forces action, I like it in that respect. people would need lots of stuff to play allies without it.

[Jennifer]

Assuming England didn’t play with Italy on Round 1, there’s no way four Russian partisans are going to do anything but stain the grass red if they move down to the Middle East.

Assuming England DID play with Italy on Round 1, Russia should have a mass invasion driving into them, by the time they got to Italian Somaliland, they’d probably have no capitol left to collect on it.  And by that, I mean an all out attack on Russia.  You’d be pretty surprised how 8 defensive punch makes quite a difference between Moscow being Russian or Moscow being Germany/Italian/Japanese.  As I said before, if you are not planning to win in the Pacific, then don’t invest there.  Gives you A LOT more leeway in what you can send down Russia’s throat.

Agreed, Russia in Africa is ahistorical.  Though, if we wanted the game to be historically accurate, we would have to ban the Axis from winning.  I could see Stalin going into the middle east.  However, I highly doubt he would let England stay.

I’d rather see Russia be a 3rd power on the board, personally.  They are able to take any allied territory west of India/China that they can walk too, but England/America can still reinforce them.  It’d be a lot more historically accurate - they took Poland, Poland was an ally.

[Cow]

you don’t need a whole army down in africa with russia… just 1 mech 1 tank takes persia then takes iraq… 1 mech 1 armor is all russia needs… uk/usa can kill everything with air for russia. like say 6 italy guys are on tobruk, drop 2 inf and hit it with air, retreat is fine.

LL games are a bit easier to predict hits with. Dice games not so much. Still the investment russia makes to take those territories are worth it.

Yeah  yeah yeah most people try to get russia rounds 5-8, easy to stall that though.

[Guest]

Getting down to Africa takes so long that the cost to Russia is much greater than the benefit.  It may also tie up UK trying to defend the Russian units.

[Spendo02]

@Vance:

Getting down to Africa takes so long that the cost to Russia is much greater than the benefit.  It may also tie up UK trying to defend the Russian units.

Much depends on how early Russia is brought into the war.

R1:  Move Arm from Stalingrad to Turkmenistan.
G2: DOW on Russia
R2: NCM Arm into E.Persia
R3: Put on UK TT
UK3: Move TT to Ethiopia
R4: Unload Arm onto Somalia
R5: Blitz forward to Sudan, taking Ethopia
R6: Your in Alexandria
R7: You can take both Tobruk and Libya

Now, you sent 6 IPC worth of units to get some extra IPC.  When does that unit pay for itself?  On R5 when you blitz to Sudan.  R4 you get 3 IPC, R5 you get 7 more for 11 IPC over those two turns.  Assuming Moscow is facing the music on G7, that means that:

R5 you place 1 more Inf
R6 you place 3 more Inf
G7 hits Moscow and you have 4 die rolling @ 2 instead of 1 Arm rolling @ 3

In my general workout for UK in Egypt those UK TT are doing this:

UK1: TT via India - bring W.Indian Inf to Persia - Unlock 3 Inf.  Egyptian TT does a NCM with Inf/AA from Malta to Egypt, ending in SZ81.
UK2: Bring Indian TT with 2 Inf to Egypt.  TT behind Suez is going to Persia for that last Inf (so it has room anyways for an Arm)
UK3: Move TT with 1 Inf from Persia to Egypt

So in theory, you find a little bit of use with putting an Arm in Turkmenistan on R1 and it can pay dividends as a decent investment later - particularly if you can bog Germany down in Russia till R8-R9.  You’ll have nearly a full extra round’s purchase of Inf that you could have placed.