Lots of questions on Germany and UK
We played 2 games this weekend but only finished one. The first one went like this for Germany. We played with Tech tokens so it was a fun game.
Turn 1: Germany - economy (30)
Purchase: 1 IC(Romania) and 2 Tanks, 1 Tech dice. (Misssed Tech on round 1)
â€¢ SZ :110 2 Subs, 3 Fighters, 3 Tact, Bomber
â€¢ SZ: 111 2 subs, Battleship, Fighter, Tact, Bomber
â€¢ SZ:106 1 Sub
â€¢ France: Everything from Holland, West Germany and 3 tanks from Southern Germany.
â€¢ Yugo: Everything left from Southern and the 3 tanks on the east front plus fighter and tact. Land them in S. Italy.
Activate â€“ Norway and Bulgaria.
Non Combat â€“ 1 inf and art to Norway. Stay in SZ 112.
Italy â€“ economy(10)
Purchase: 1 Fighter
â€¢ Southern France : 2 inf + 2 art + Tank
â€¢ SZ:93 â€“ Sub + 2 fighter + Bomber
â€¢ Tunsia: inf + art + mech + tank
â€¢ Greece: 8 inf + 1 tank + BB + CR + CR barrage.
Turn 2: Germany â€“ economy (68)
Declare war: Neutrals
Purchase: 10 mech 3 tanks, Tact
â€¢ Sweden â€“ 9 inf + 1 art + 1 armor + 2 bombers with CR barrage
â€¢ Spain: 3 mech + 6 tanks +2 fighter +2 tact
â€¢ Normany: 2 fighters + 2 tact + 2 art + 1 mech
Italy managed to take Turkey on round 2 with the units in Greece and using their 3 fighters, bomber and BB, 2CR barrages. Italy also sends tank to Gibraltar. The next turn Germany blitzes through Turkey into Caucasus and gets Jet Power. Germany builds an Air Base in Spain with 6 tanks, 3 fighters, and 2 art from Italy. Wish I would have got a photo of that round. I switched my fighters from 109â€s to 262â€s, hehe.
That complex in Romania really helps send units to Turkey quick which lead to a huge boost in economy for Italy and Germany. Probably would have been a good game if USA would not have left their SZ:101 with only transports and no fighters to scramble which my German CR was at Gib with a transport and 2 inf. I ended up taking his transports out and landed in central. Germany had an economy of 80 that round. The allies surrendered after that.
Really like the ‘waterballoon’ comparison :D.
I love to go it slow for Japan as well but I must admit I sometimes go waterballooning on purpose -only I never called it that way ;-).
last time I played Japan and my German partner wanted to go Sea Lion versus a capable allied team so I decided to put a lot of pressure on the USA and I took J3:
Aleutians, Hawai, Midway, Wake, Johnston, Gilbert, Solomons, New Guinea, Guam, Borneo, Celebes, Java, Malaya and the Philipines. I also attacked the complete and combined USA and ANZAC fleets in SZ 54 AND I still managed to continue the usual offensives in Mainland Asia this turn (last turn of serious offensives for Japan here).
Perfect example of a waterballoon because after this turn Japan had only 7TRS left, plus the leftovers of its fleet. The upside: J4 the allies had no warships anymore (SZ54 was an allied mistake) and the USA had a very hard time deciding where to spend its IPCs, either in Europe liberating London or in the Pacific stopping me. Downside: China, India and Russia were on the offensive in no time, seriously threatening Japanese VC’s on Mainland Asia.
Edited: My mistake, I took those territories as part of the J4 offensives. Controlling all Pacific islands still looks awesome!
An SBR campaign against the UK early in the game basically amounts to spending German money to make the British spend their money. If you don’t plan to do Sea Lion as a counterpart to that bombing campaign, you won’t make any real progress as Germany. Russia will be smiling, and as soon as the US arrives, your bombers and subs will need to stop bothering the Brits or they’ll be destroyed.
Yep. And if you’re not going to Sealion, why would the Brits even bother fixing their factories? No reason to unless you need to use them.
Great example ItIsILeClerc. I wonder what your economy was after that round. How many transports did you max with? I always make the mistake of not keeping enough DD to block with Japan.
First, sorry to post all this Japanese stuff in a Germany/UK discussion, but I think it can be useful still, as these are my experiences of a direct ‘cause and effect’ of a Sea Lion strategy extrapolated into Japanese actions (in an attempt to prevent the USA from liberating London)! Please note that my German partner and I decided on this after we saw the UK making a couple of blunders (not just 1, but ‘Taranto’ absolutely being one of them) that would lead to the fall of London should Germany launch a surprise attack on it.
To answer your questions:
I must admit I am too lazy today to calculate the exact income but I can make an educated guess ;-). I think I peaked at 71 that turn and I used
1412 TRSs to get to it (and yes, I lost 75 of them). In this game I never managed to get more than this 71 IPCs income, as China and India quickly recovered and the Russians gave me troubles as well. They almost took Shanghai and Hong Kong from me but I managed to hold on to those VC’s.
I remember that I felt extremely Lucky my allied opponents had never seen anything like this before (they even took a picture in awe after all my CM’s J3) and China for example, very afraid of my previous game’s destruction of their entire army J2 at the cost of only 3 Zero’s, retreated towards the Russian border CH1 and CH2 so I had free offensives here at start. And I needed that, because I spent ALL my income on TRS and loaded them with japanese-at-start land units. The remainder, (nothing worth mentioning) was used to offend China and India :evil:.
This game was interesting for me because I saw proof of the potential for the Allies to KJF me and win the game. Fortunately, the allies did NOT see/do this and went Europe first which they screwed up in their panic as well. If the USA sees real threats coming on both sides it MUST keep its head cool and pick on 1 of the major Axis partners. Usually this has to be Japan because of the 6VC rule in the Pacific, but if it looks Japan does not get its hands on 6VC within the first 7 turns (meaning they go for India first) then Germany could be picked instead to get London back into the cart.
Edit: corrected some lazy miscalculations on my part :lol:
That is incredible… Its interesting how you maintained such a high income without the coast. Holding the coast and the Dutch isles I usually peak around 65.
But the coast was not yet taken from me J3 or J4 ;-). It never completely was. If you do the math, it looks like this:
26 + 10NO’s (outer perimeter + Hawai) + 1 (Hawai) + 20 (DEI) + 2 (Phil) + 8 (China) + 9 (SE Asia) + 4 (some Russian territories) = 80 max!
Later on I lost a LOT of ground in Russia + Asia, so from turn 5 the income went down quickly… I made a start invading Australian territories and contested some SE Asian territories back and forth and my guess is that by that time the Japanese income was indeed more between 55 - 65 IPCs a turn.
Compared to the 80 - 95 IPCs Japan can collect when going all in against Asia, Russia and Middle East this is peanuts, but the latter strategy puts the Axis in a time/tempo disadvantage (IMHO ;-)).
BTW, I have to correct myself. Repeating J1 & J2 in my head today I came to the conclusion I got some numbers wrong in my lazy guesswork some days ago ;-). I’ll correct them in my previous posts.