Much appreciated. So then naval bombardment does count towards a combat move
Krieghund - Landing Russian units on UK?
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The way the rules currently read, yes. This may be changed in the FAQ.
When will they be out?
I don’t know for sure, but sometime in November is probably a good bet.
Yeah, November.
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Allowing Russia to force a German DOW is a bit broken in a game that seems to lean towards the allies already. If the allies were struggling to win, I could see making the argument to let them do so. As it stands, I think the allies are strong enough.
A-FREAKIN’-MEN!!!
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They should at least be able to attack neutrals, like they did historically(Baltic States, Bessarabia, Poland)
Again, we’re talking about G40 here. Those regions are not Neutral in the OOB setup I see. Russia starts with E Poland, Bessarabia and the Baltics. No need for them to attack any of those on R1, they took them on R-Zero.
Yeah, those tt are not neutral to start. OOB shows Russia’s aggression, and they are “RED”. However, I think that Russia (as an aggressive nation) should be given the right to invade any of the remaining neutrals that it can get to w/o a DOW w/Japan. War w/Japan really has nothing to do with what Russia does in Europe/Middle East. Invading neutrals should just be part of Russia’s political situation rules IMO (expand the Empire). If this clause is changed (DOW w/Jap allows Russia to invade neutrals before its at war w/Euro axis) you would have a better chance of putting a NAP together too (would only concern Jap/Russian relations). Russia did invade NW Persia (as UK took control of the rest). Stalin wanted access to the just finished rail lines (Soviet interests-trade routes, protect its Caucasus oil etc), plus Stalin didn’t want UK that close to its boarders either (trust issues). As far as Russia going further in the middle east, that’s up to the allies to sort out (I think that’s why Larry made Persia 3 tt’s). Russia can’t get to Bulg, Yogo, or Greece (blocked by Romania). Furthermore if the German player makes a blunder, and forgets to invade Finland, the Russian player should be able to take advantage.
Just for the record I think that Russia should stay out of all UK tt until officially at war w/Euro axis (and vise versa).
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@WILD:
OOB shows Russia’s aggression, and they are “RED”. However, I think that Russia (as an aggressive nation) should be given the right to invade any of the remaining neutrals that it can get to w/o a DOW w/Japan.
Well… Maybe to simulate Russia’s aggression, it should have a different diplomatic relationship than the other allies with regards to neutrals. Specifically, proallied neutrals are hostile to the USSR and are only friendly to the Western Powers (UK, ANZAC, US, France), which makes sense, considering that “control” is given under the assumption that the neutral power maintains sovereignty. And as history demonstrated, nations that the Soviets liberated were certainly not necessarily sovereign after ww2.
So russia can “attack” whatever pro allied or proaxis neutral it wants from the outset of the game, but they are all attacks, have to be combat moves, and they can NEVER gain free units from those territories (gotta attack them, or let a western ally control them). So after round 1 maybe they’ll be allowed to get Persia, but it will involve an attack and they don’t get free fodder.
I still wish that the rules, with all this DOWs and such, simply added some Russian diplomatic rules. Bar them from having US or UK units in original USSR territories (instead remove them immediately and USSR can buy them at half cost rounded up the next round and replace them in their territories). And similarly, they just should not be allowed in original Western Power’s territories EVER. Russia should not be so simply “ally”. It was a far more complicated and distrustful relationship of Axis and Allies and Russia.
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kcdzim, all neutrals being hostel to Russia is very interesting, and probably more realistic (don’t think it will be adopted though). Russia being a hostel ally (not allowing units to mix w/western allies) is also historic and would give the game a good twist. The boards have shown some support for something like this in the past and would be a cool house rule. If the allies end up having an advantage in E40, or G40, adopting a hostel Russia could swing things back to center. Of course you could work in a lend lease program w/western powers and mobile industry so Russia could continue to build if Moscow falls.
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@WILD:
Of course you could work in a lend lease program w/western powers and mobile industry so Russia could continue to build if Moscow falls.
This would be the LendLease: @kcdzim:
Bar them from having US or UK units in original USSR territories (instead remove them immediately and USSR can buy them at half cost rounded up the next round and replace them in their territories).
Russia shouldn’t ever get lendlease units for free, simply because if they were free Russia would be able to RAPIDLY outproduce Germany because US planes are being dumped into soviet hands and since the US is generally further from the action, handing over units to russia doesn’t hurt the US really at all, while Russia gets a larger stack than they should be able to build, which would make russia even tougher for germany.
However, if Russia can pay half price for allied units in their spaces (and place their new units in those appropriate spaces) it’s not nearly as broken a mechanic. Russia can build more than they normally could, but it still costs SOMETHING, and the other allies spend the bulk amount mobilizing and moving the units into Russian territories and lose full cost.
so, I would propose lendlease work as follows:
- An allied unit enters an originalRussian territory
- place a marker of some sort in that spot to specify type of unit and return the piece to the allied owners box (internment). If a territory with a marker is attacked before the russian turn, the marker does not participate in the battle and is immediately removed if the territory is captured (allies need to plan ahead, no do or die fighter defense drops unless it’s not an originalRussian territory.
- On russia’s purchase phase, any remaining markers can be repurchased as that type of unit for half price, rounded up.
- Russia may choose to mobilize a lendlease unit to its marker or to a production center (following standard mobilization rules eg it can’t exceed mobilization levels just because it’s lend lease). Obviously if the marker is at a production center, the marker doesn’t count against production levels.
- all remaining markers are removed from board. Call it reverse engineering or poor training & implemenation. Whatever it is, russia can’t SAVE up cheap fighters for a rainy day.
Again, this only occurs in original russian territories. Joint allied defense is still allowed for non original russian controlled territories. Allied units will hold the line there, but once inside the iron curtain they aren’t allowed to fight.
It doesn’t immediately give russia defensive units, and any lend lease unit will need to be protected until russias turn. Russia still has to pay a little to gain what could effectively be ALOT - 2 ipc infantry, 3 ipc tanks, 2 ipc artillery, 2 ipc mech, 5 ipc fighters, 6 ipc tacs, 6 ipc bombers. In return for the unit not being available that first round and potentially being lost if the drop goes to a vulnerable space, they can be remobilized to the space immediately, potentially closer to the action (siberian bombers). Allied planes can make their historic emergency landings (pacific theater b29 pilots interned and released, but the bombers were kept for reverse engineering), but just make sure the territory isn’t overrun before russia gets to enjoy the fruits of allied labor.
Obviously this is all house-ruley and stuff and I’d never expect any new Russian diplomatic rules to be implemented. I just wish they had been originally. I mean, china has bizarre special rules, Russia was just as unique as an allied power.
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What you propose is much better then straight converts (didn’t like that old Russian NA, to easy). Having them pay for conversion (1/2) should keep it from being overly used, but should still have some limits though. Might even consider historical shipping routes for Russian tt that are able to receive units.
We have really drifted from the original topic.
Should get back to where Russian units can go based on who they are at war with. My understanding is that these rules are under review, and may change w/FAQ.
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@WILD:
Should get back to where Russian units can go based on who they are at war with. My understanding is that these rules are under review, and may change w/FAQ.
one can hope.
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Hello McFly how about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
You can’t just conveniently ignore the fact that both the Germans and the Russians carved up Poland in September 1939.
In fact up to the June 1941 invasion almost 1 1/2 years later the Germans and Russians were cooperative Allies in every way!
Despite the fact that France had fallen with the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Norway et al,
Russia whimpered and delayed and stalled and killed Poles and ignored the suffering in the West
Did you ever hear the one about how Great Britain stood alone?
Then after 1941 the Soviets had the audacity to demand a Western Front.
There had been a Western Front since 1939!
Since 1939 the Russians were actively trading with Germany.
This was not accidental it was a deliberate policy
Now you McFlys want to ignore that for game balance?
I don’t think so!
Trains were literally crossing the borders between the two as the Germans struck East.
That is ridiculous if it changes.
It does not reflect history at all if they can do so before the Germans strike the Soviets.
……
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,–
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), “King Richard II”, Act 2 scene 1
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Who’s McFly?
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Who’s McFly?
in this thread, McFly would be people who think Russia isn’t in the Axis or at least NOT in the Allies until Germany declares war on Russia.
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Who’s McFly?
in this thread, McFly would be people who think Russia isn’t in the Axis or at least NOT in the Allies until Germany declares war on Russia.
So, people who think Russia is neutral…like it actually was…
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Ask the 7000 or so Poles that died defending the Eastern front in 1940 if the Russians were neutral.
Or all the people that were executed in the process of making Poland “soviet”.
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Ask the 7000 or so Poles that died defending the Eastern front in 1940 if the Russians were neutral.
Or all the people that were executed in the process of making Poland “soviet”.
Neutral with respect to Germany v Britain.
By your logic, Spain should not be neutral since it was at war in 1936.
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Spain’s war was over in 1939. Franco actually pissed off Hitler by staying out of WW2, but he knew that he was screwed for support if he got into it on the axis side. Spain had no money by 39 and no army to speak of. Read about the Spanish Civil war and how it left Spain completely decimated.
If you want to argue about historical tweaking though, I do think that germany should have an NO of +5 IPCs from Spain if the Axis controls all of France. They did give a few men and some raw materials to the Nazis.
There’s also this country called Portugal sitting there that might not have liked a Pro Axis spain and welcomed a nice American landing force.
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Spain’s war was over in 1939. Franco actually pissed off Hitler by staying out of WW2, but he knew that he was screwed for support if he got into it on the axis side. Spain had no money by 39 and no army to speak of. Read about the Spanish Civil war and how it left Spain completely decimated.
If you want to argue about historical tweaking though, I do think that germany should have an NO of +5 IPCs from Spain if the Axis controls all of France. They did give a few men and some raw materials to the Nazis.
The US also gave much more than a few supplies to the UK. Thus, it should get a +10 NO if the US controls WUS, CUS, and EUS by your logic.
Russian war on Poland was also over by the time this game begins
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Ask the 7000 or so Poles that died defending the Eastern front in 1940 if the Russians were neutral.
Or all the people that were executed in the process of making Poland “soviet”.
It’s hard to talk to dead people.
McFly as in Marty McFly, the time traveler.
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the Spain NO i was talking about would be something akin to the current NO germany has from Sweden.
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Who’s McFly?
in this thread, McFly would be people who think Russia isn’t in the Axis or at least NOT in the Allies until Germany declares war on Russia.
Only a little uncalled for considering no one in this thread actually suggested that Russia SHOULD be allowed in the UK or SHOULD be allowed to attack Germany first (of course not!)
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Simply me responding to another typical calvin post to just make his little post counter tick up 1. Read the thread. But you’re right. I shouldn’t have replied and therefore fed the troll.
In fact I will say this. I’m done. If calvin replies to anything of mine with his typical LH slurping, you can’t possibly be right crapfest, I will not reply again in the same thread.
Furthermore, let me say this. If TripleA gets up and running w/the G40 rules, you won’t have to deal w/me in these forums anymore, as I try to use them as a way to gather info from outside my playgroup. If I can have the people in the TripleA lobby to strat with, I won’t have to wade through the calvinfest any longer. So, if you want me gone from the forums, please donate and support TripleA. The link can be found elsewhere in the forums, and shockingly, it is the only post of mine that Calvin hasn’t thrown his 2 cents into yet. Maybe he should take some of his allowance money instead and throw it into TripleA.
/Retired from posting until the kid learns what a woman is
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