@Eric-Poppleton well I tried it by myself some and it sorta worked. My goal was to get my buddies into the game and try it with them but we’re still in the learning phase-figured it’s only a valid test if they have developed strategies in the normal game
Axis and Allies Enhanced: Anniversary Edition
-
@Cmdr:
Some. The stuff they did not like was shifted down into advanced, optional rules.
I only created/commented on the new tech WRT how Enhanced handled tech. We’re playing my 4:2 version of tech in our AA50 games. works well.
@Cmdr:
The latest incarnation has not been commented on by axis or cousin. Dunno, maybe they didn’t like it when I challenged some of their decisions and now they are boycotting the adapting of the rule set, maybe they’ve just been too busy or maybe they just don’t want to create a AA50:Enhanced game?
I only challenged that you get cousin_joe’s approval/buy in before you start publishing rules for Anniversary under the ‘Enhanced’ tag. To the best of my knowledge, you didn’t do that.
Honestly, I am still playing Anniversary to see even IF fixes need to be made. When Revised came out and it was eventually found that KGF was the best allied move, Cousin_Joe led the way to making a game that was balanced through-out the game map. I do not see such a need for Convoy raids or National Advantages in the new game at this point. There’s a lot of moving pieces in the new game, with optional rules like National Objectives, Tech and even the new air-to-air escort/intercept posted on Larry Harris’s site to deter SBRs.
Perhaps because I just don’t have enough game play to be considered an expert at AA50 yet.
Give the game some time to see what (if any) is broken about it, and then how badly it is broken. At that point, appropriate fixes ala house rules like Enhanced can be implemented.
Good Gaming!
axis_roll -
Yeah, I don’t want to stir anything up but it doesn’t seem right to adapt the “Enhanced” moniker without the endorsement of the original AARe guys.
Besides, AA50 hasn’t had time to settle yet. I think over a year passed from the release of AAR to the development of AARe, and that’s good because apart from a little clunkiness with subs, AARe was an excellent ruleset. You could tell that the collaborators behind it had played a LOT of games. I don’t think anyone can really say that so far in the three or so months AA50 has been out.
-
For the record, this is NOT an ENDORSED version of AA50e.
Jennifer, please stop posting your assemblage of rules as The Enhanced Rules for AA50.. Your rules were not created via a consortium of A&A players to fix agreed upon game playout issues nor have they been play tested. You have even incorporated rules from other game editions for no reason!
Make up your own name for your Rules Set, do NOT used AA50e.
How about AA50HP (HodgePodge)?
-
For the record, this is NOT an ENDORSED version of AA50e.
Jennifer, please stop posting your assemblage of rules as The Enhanced Rules for AA50.. Your rules were not created via a consortium of A&A players to fix agreed upon game playout issues nor have they been play tested. You have even incorporated rules from other game editions for no reason!
Make up your own name for your Rules Set, do NOT used AA50e.
How about AA50HP (HodgePodge)?
Wow, are you ever wrong on all accounts!
These rules HAVE been play tested on multiple different sites by many players, they work, they do not “incorporate rules from other game editions for no reason” they only incorporate rules from AARe and AA50
And they are sanctioned
Just because YOU CHOSE not to consult on the drafting of the rules does not invalidate them. You are no one special, Axis. You’re a rank and file player like the rest of us.
The attached PDF are THE OFFICIAL AA50:ENHANCED RULES, end of story. If you would like to create a different set of rules you may feel free, but my set is the first released and published and game tested and approved by the player base. Many people had a hand in helping to create them which, indirectly, includes the original designers of AARe since much of the rules are copy/pasted straight FROM AARe (which was done purposely to make the minimal amount of changes to the rules.)
If you know AARe and you like it, AA50e is virtually the same but with the addition of Cruisers, the changes to naval units as listed in AA50 and national advantages being replaced by technology (since they over lapped.)
Axis has no valid authority to lay claim to the name AA50e and I suspect, has no support for his claim to ownership of the name AA50e.
Also, if anyone finds a valid exploit in the AA50e that the myriad of game testers failed to find, please point it out and a discussion will be held by the game testers and further game play will attempt to see if it “breaks” the game or if there are rules already in place to allow strategies to counter the exploit. So far we, the game developers who adapted the AARe rules to fit in the AA50 rules and map, feel the current rule set is as strong or stronger than the AARe rules were/are.
-
I never said Enhanced was my rules set, even though I was one of a small group of key players to mold and shape and game play test Cousin_Joes original vision for Enhanced for Revised. You were not around at all during this period of rule creation and tweaking through 5 versions of the rules. I have been the reigning title holder for a few years as well, so yes, I do feel that I am a very key person when it comes to the Enhanced rules set. I would place me third on the list of Key A&A players in the Enhanced world:
1). Cousin_Joe (creator and final approval of all rules changes)
2). PAGAN (#1 supporting of getting the rules out into the A&A community & tourny facilitator)
3). axis_roll (#1 title belt holder for 2 years)Show me where Cousin Joe has endorsed your hodge podge of rules and I will be satisfied.
He is the originator of the Enhanced moniker and without his approval, you are way off base by claiming that your rules are Enhanced rules.
Just because you cut and paste the rules from the Enhanced rules that were created for the REVISED game DOES NOT MEAN these are the official AA50 Enhanced version.
I await your evidence that you have C_J’s approval.
Without that, all you have created is AA50HP.
-
Nobody has any claim to ownership of AA50e or any other new name. If somebody made a AA50HE i would have nothing to say about it except congratulations. All House rules made for the public don’t have any claim of exclusivity and using the word Enhanced is no exception.
Jennifer’s version is probably good after all she did work on other House rules sets over the years and she plays more games than most of us have time for.
I do think however if she claimed the title AARe it would be a bit much, but since she is the first one to develop AA50e officially then why not let her do it with that title.
You guys can call it AAAe or whatnot, or eve just call it AA50E (part 2)
-
@Imperious:
Nobody has any claim to ownership of AA50e or any other new name. If somebody made a AA50HE i would have nothing to say about it except congratulations. All House rules made for the public don’t have any claim of exclusivity and using the word Enhanced is no exception.
Jennifer’s version is probably good after all she did work on other House rules sets over the years and she plays more games than most of us have time for.
I do think however if she claimed the title AARe it would be a bit much, but since she is the first one to develop AA50e officially then why not let her do it with that title.
You guys can call it AAAe or whatnot
I am sorry, but I disagree. Mainly because there is an existing excellent rules set called AARe. There is an implied level of quality and purpose when someone mentions the ‘Enhanced’ Rules.
Again, if Cousin_Joe agrees to allow Jennifer to call her AA50HP the official Enhanced rules, I am ok.
-
I am sorry, but I disagree. Mainly because there is an existing excellent rules set called AARe. There is an implied level of quality and purpose when someone mentions the ‘Enhanced’ Rules.
Again, if Cousin_Joe agrees to allow Jennifer to call her AA50HP the official Enhanced rules, I am ok.
Oh which one? you mean this one?
http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/axisalliesrules/advancedairpower.html
Well since then they already published Axis and Allies Enhanced, I don’t understand any claims of ownership since back in 1998 somebody already did it.
http://www.amazon.com/Axis-Allies-Enhanced-Realism-Rules/dp/1887641270
So they got AAe, you got AARe and Jennifer got AA50e. See easy?
-
@Imperious:
I am sorry, but I disagree. Mainly because there is an existing excellent rules set called AARe. There is an implied level of quality and purpose when someone mentions the ‘Enhanced’ Rules.
Again, if Cousin_Joe agrees to allow Jennifer to call her AA50HP the official Enhanced rules, I am ok.
Oh which one? you mean this one?
http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/axisalliesrules/advancedairpower.html
What you have posted is the Enhanced Realism rules, not AARe.
@Imperious:
Well since then they already published Axis and Allies Enhanced, I don’t understand any claims of ownership since back in 1998 somebody already did it.
http://www.amazon.com/Axis-Allies-Enhanced-Realism-Rules/dp/1887641270
I am sorry, you are mistaken.
@Imperious:
So they got AAe, you got AARe and Jennifer got AA50e. See easy?
It’s is not just me with some personal vendetta against the Post Monster Jennifer. Others have mentioned her hijacking the name here and in personal messages to me as well.
Again, perhaps Cousin_Joe doesn’t mind. That’s his call.
I just think it’s lame to copy his rules from a different game and add them to the new game and label them under someone elses previously established name.
-
OK so if Jennifer uses: Axis and Allies Enhanced: Anniversary Edition which is different than Axis and Allies Revised Enhanced or Axis and Allies Enhanced Realism than its ok?
OR is the issue she cant use the rules from Enhanced?
The posts i read say she cant use the word Enhanced to describe her rules, but if thats the case you guys ‘borrowed’ the name from that guy back in 1998, but if you actually arguing that she cant use the rules from your version of Enhanced which is entirely different.
-
I just think it’s lame to copy his rules from a different game and add them to the new game and label them under someone elses previously established name.
I agree completely. The three guys you mentioned cared for and nurtured the AARe ruleset for YEARS, and now it’s basically been hijacked out from under them.
The only possible reason to call the Jenny ruleset “Enhanced” is to confuse newbies or people like me who play a lot offline but don’t really keep track of the online scene. And then to keep at it when the original three ask nicely to desist is boorish and arrogant.
I for one will never play AA50:Jenny, but if the real Enhanced rules come out once you guys get a sense of the game’s balance please keep us informed.
-
You see, Axis has a bone to pick with me.
1) He feels slighted because his only critique of the game was that there were too many “new” rules. There are no “new” rules in Anniversary Enhanced, there is only a blending of AARe rules to work within the rules of Anniversary. Had he given us a specific example of rules HE had a problem with, then HIS issues would have been taken under advisement and the game may or may not be even better than it is now. (We will never know, he stubbornly refused to work with anyone but chose to sit on the side lines yelling and screaming unhelpful profanities until he was ignored by the entire development team.)
2) Cousin Joe has been informed, he was emailed with copies of every set of rules for his approval. We only received one response from him early on in the development phase where he expressed interest that the rules were being adapted to run in Anniversary Edition. He seems to have gone to great length to keep himself out of the development process, one might suspect because he didn’t like dealing with people who acted exactly as Axis_Roll has been where everything turns into a slanderous attack and flames in an effort to kill something good.
3) Seeings as AARe rules have been put into Anniversary Rules with very minor changes, and I mean very VERY minor changes, this is really AARe Version 2.0 more than Anniversary:Enhanced. The team decided to go with Anniversary:Enhanced because Anniversary, not Revised, is the foundation of the game. Had Axis_Roll but even downloaded and read the rules even once, he would see his entire argument is bunk since there is virtually no significant changes between the two rule sets.
4) As team leader or the rule set, and the first group to publish the rules, we get first dibs on names out there anyway. Just because you publish a book called “The Life Story of Anne Frank” does not mean someone else cannot publish a similar story called “The Biography of Anne Frank”. They’re different titles, different authors, working on the same subject.
5) As I mentioned in the forward (first post) dozens upon dozens of players have worked hard over the past couple of months trying to get AARe rules to work on the Anniversary Board with the Anniversary Rules. Obviously with most of the NAs being turned into Technologies and new territories placed on the map, there had to be some adjustment of the rules. Things like changing the name of Western Europe to France in the section about D-Day Invasion. It’s an uber miniature change, semantics to be exact, France is still Western Europe, they just named it France this time. That change is indicative of the changes made from AARe to AA50e.
6) If Axis_Roll would like to put together his own rule set (and I highly doubt he has the patience, stamina, fortitude or creativity to do so, which is not a flame, just a statement that I don’t think he has the personality to do it, even if he is a “good guy”) he may call his rule set AA50:HP or whatever he wants. Obviously, I’d take umbrage as well as the entire development staff and maybe even Cousin Joe, if he attempted to steal the name or any of the currently published rules for AA50:Enhanced since it is now a working, functioning and published rule set. (Copies have been sent to the US Copywrite Office dated Jan 18, 2009)
7) Now, if Imperial Leader would be so kind, it would be great if axis_roll’s comments were deleted from the thread. It is painfully obvious that he is attempting to stir up discontent in an effort to kill the hard work of dozens upon dozens of individuals for his own personal gain by slinging mud. Right now there are 3 major clubs that are looking to this board for their copies of AA50:Enhanced and the users who do not know better, might think axis_roll has some influence or say over the matters instead of him just being some discontented user with a bone to pick with me personally.
-
I just think it’s lame to copy his rules from a different game and add them to the new game and label them under someone else’s previously established name.
Well if you think about it all the House rules are doing that. They use the words Axis and Allies followed by blah blah blah. So basically anybody taking the AA game engine and adding some rules and calling it something different are all guilty of this.
I see your idea, but actually everybody who makes house rules fo0r AA is also doing this, but if they borrow the ideas verbatim and don’t bother to rewrite the text and add no new ideas….then i would agree, but i think her version is somewhat different. Also, most of the ideas i have seen dealing with for example sub interactions are a variation of Larry Harris rules under his advanced AA section. They have been extrapolated by many house players.
Its like somebody making bread and the first guy claiming that he owns the first loaf, while everybody is developing different types of bread but still calling it bread… the first guy wants the others to stop using the idea for making bread and wants the other bakers to stop calling it bread. Perhaps thats not an equal analogy, but surely its kinda close.
I think that nearly all those various NA’s are also previously seen from other posters. Its not really important but i am pointing out the larger reality that essentially all house rules are traced from bits of ideas playtested over years.
And at least she is taking the initiative for forwarding discussion. But then again it seems your less concerned with the ideas, then borrowing the name even if the name was already borrowed.
-
7) Now, if Imperial Leader would be so kind, it would be great if axis_roll’s comments were deleted from the thread. It is painfully obvious that he is attempting to stir up discontent in an effort to kill the hard work of dozens upon dozens of individuals for his own personal gain by slinging mud. Right now there are 3 major clubs that are looking to this board for their copies of AA50:Enhanced and the users who do not know better, might think axis_roll has some influence or say over the matters instead of him just being some discontented user with a bone to pick with me personally.
I cant really do that. Sorry
Everybody has a right to opinions and hes behaving pretty well.
I will leave this thread because we both may have hyjacked it a bit. I think this is good work so keep it up. All ideas are welcome.
-
I just think it’s lame to copy his rules from a different game and add them to the new game and label them under someone elses previously established name.
I agree completely. The three guys you mentioned cared for and nurtured the AARe ruleset for YEARS, and now it’s basically been hijacked out from under them.
They were not hijacked. Cousin_Joe and everyone else was made fully aware of what was being done when the official word came that they had no interest in creating the Anniversary Enhanced Rules themselves. They were asked, begged and pleaded with to assist and they chose not too. They relinquished control provided we did not make any drastic changes.
As I mentioned, the only real changes to the game from AARe to AA50e including little things like Western Europe’s name being changed to France, obviously the countries of Italy and China were added since they now exist whereas before they did not, etc.
If you were to so much as download and read the rules, you’d never have made this post. Doing a line by line comparison would show you that almost everything from AARe is the same in AA50e.
The name was not chosen to confuse anyone. This is the valid heir to the title, no other heir exists.
-
@Imperious:
I cant really do that. Sorry
Everybody has a right to opinions and hes behaving pretty well.
I will leave this thread because we both may have hyjacked it a bit. I think this is good work so keep it up. All ideas are welcome.
Yes, well he was invited to give us constructive criticism. He, and others, may feel free to download the rules, read them, and offer suggestions at any time. I can’t imagine there would be many since the AA50:Enhanced rules are almost word for word the same as the AARe rules with the ultra minor changes forced to be made given the new map and the new rules in Anniversary itself.
Likewise, I have to agree with your earlier statement. Axis and Allies is a trademarked name (or maybe just copywrited) therefore anyone who comes up with a ruleset for Axis and Allies outside of the one provided by the manufacturer and game designer and anyone else with rights to the game is technically stealing the ideas of others.
However, it’s been common practice for quite some time now that house rules and the publishing of house rules is permitted provided people don’t actually steal the game itself.
As I said, this iteration of AA50e is a derivative of AARe. It’s virtually identical in every way, there are no unexpected major changes because we, the development TEAM, were worried about the following:
1) We wanted to maintain the integrity of AA50 as much as possible.
2) We wanted to maintain the integrity of AARe as much as possible only making changes when AARe directly contradicted AA50 (as in the case where Western Europe is listed as the D-Day target in AARe but the name was changed in AA50 to be France.)
3) In an effort to remain true to the spirit of AARe we made the technology change from unguided to guided because so much of the rules of AARe were centered around the aspect of choosing your technology and being guaranteed to get it after a certain amount of cash was spent towards it. Believe me, this change was not under taken lightly, but when we realized that taking it out screwed up the spirit of AARe, it screwed up the balance of AARe, and it screwed up THREE PAGES of AARe, we realized we had no choice but to switch the AA50 system to the AARe system for AA50e. -
Jennifer, stop using Enhanced as if it were yours! It is in poor taste to hijack Enhanced (AARe) from Cousin Joe.
Since you have a problem understanding, let me spell it out for you. Jennifer is NOT The Official AA50e.
Enhanced is not a democratic process. Cousin Joe may ask for input, then he makes a decision on a rule. If there is a problem, it will be handled after playtesting.
It is great that you are making a working version of house rules. Call them something else, for there are many words to choose from. I’m sure you will pick something good.
I have been following the workings of AARe since there were only 4 NA’s for each of the Allies, when Long Range Aircraft was a minor Tech, when Radar was boosted to make it worth picking, to name a few.
You were there for none of that.
Your introduction to Enhanced was 361 days ago.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11203.0So, how could you possibly know that some of the core things in Enhanced were to:
–work with the rules of Revised as much as possible. (AA50e should look into AA50 rules as much as possible=AA50 does not have National Advantages)
–not invent new units, so new players do not shy away.
–shorten the game length/time to make it more tournament friendly.@Cmdr:
2) Cousin Joe has been informed, he was emailed with copies of every set of rules for his approval. We only received one response from him early on in the development phase where he expressed interest that the rules were being adapted to run in Anniversary Edition. He seems to have gone to great length to keep himself out of the development process, one might suspect because he didn’t like dealing with people who acted exactly as Axis_Roll has been where everything turns into a slanderous attack and flames in an effort to kill something good.
Cousin Joe is working on AA50e.
Just because you post 17.643 times per day does not give you the right the hijack his work and claim he does nothing.Just because the rest of the AARe players are not posting once a day, does not mean they agree with you. I have been following AARe for years and this is the first time I felt the need to post to stop your hijacking.
Your impatient posting instead of waiting one year to get to know and enjoy AA50 BEFORE starting the AA50e process is noted.
-
@Cmdr:
I just think it’s lame to copy his rules from a different game and add them to the new game and label them under someone elses previously established name.
I agree completely. The three guys you mentioned cared for and nurtured the AARe ruleset for YEARS, and now it’s basically been hijacked out from under them.
They were not hijacked. Cousin_Joe and everyone else was made fully aware of what was being done when the official word came that they had no interest in creating the Anniversary Enhanced Rules themselves. They were asked, begged and pleaded with to assist and they chose not too. They relinquished control provided we did not make any drastic changes.
Did it ever occur to you that their non-response meant that they did not agree with your intentions?
Perhaps C_Js email has changed or he did not have time is his real life to engage in an email battle exchange with you. A lack of response is no endorsement of your rules set. I have sent out a request to Cousin_Joe to endorse your rules set, but he has not yet responded.
Do you know why? Most likely it is due to the fact that Chris has life outside this message board. He is a family man now, and A&A takes a back seat to being a father. Instead of posting 28,000+ messages, he lives in the real world.
I really could care less what sort of ramblings you post about me. Your Enhanced skills we so pathetic in the three games we played, I might as well have been playing a total newbie instead of you. Explain it in any fashion that you will in follow up replies, but your game was very poor in my book.
Again I await your evidence that Cousin_Joe endorses your AA50HP version of the rules. Did you ever read (and comprehend) the logic behind WHY AARe was originally created in the first place? Perhaps Cousin Joe’s own words on THIS message board might enlighten you:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=13277.msg374877#msg374877
Post what ever insults and personal attacks you want about me. Your AARe game is weak. Just because you have run into the wall a thousand times does not mean on the 1001th time you will break through the wall and achieve your objective. In case my analogy is not clear, I will rephrase: Putting on clothes 1000 times does not make one an expert at fashion just as playing 1000 games or posting 1527+ posts makes you an expert at A&A. In other words, cutting 1000 lawns does not make you an expert groundskeeper.
Again. please posts evidence that ANY ONE of the original AARe from the Avalon hill boards agree with you on your AA50"e" version of the rules.
-
Doing a line by line comparison would show you that almost everything from AARe is the same in AA50e.
But AA50 is a different game from AAR. You can’t just recycle all the old rules and repackage them yourself and expect to have the same quality of rule set that is AARe. It’s way too premature for a project like this, we don’t know enough about game balance with the OOB rules yet to start making fundamental changes to the rules and expecting quality game play. A direct quote from cousin_joe:
this is a whole new game and we can’t simply port over everything from AARe to AA50e
The “Enhanced” moniker is sort of like a brand name, in that it is associated with a certain level of quality. The original developers obviously put a lot of effort into the rule set, and it was thoroughly tested. Its not just a bunch of “cool” ideas someone slapped together and presented as a ruleset. For the vast, vast majority of house rules, this is not the case.
So while you may argue that most of the rules are the same anyway, and you have the right to call it whatever you want, etc, etc. well, yeah, this is true, the rules are mostly the same and the “Enhanced” name is not copyrighted. But your ruleset is not the same quality product that AARe was, sorry. And you clearly do not have the blessing of the original development team. This is not a slam at you, its just the facts: AA50 has only been out a few months for crying out loud! By using the “Enhanced” name you are misleading people. I suspect this is why axis_roll is up in arms about this, and rightly so. I would feel the same way if I was one of the lead developers of AARe.
Like I said, you can call the rules whatever you want, but why not just call it something different for now? If not to satisfy axis_roll and the original AARe developers, then at least do it as a service to the community so that the “Enhanced” brand is not tarnished.
-
Goody, Axis_Roll, you’ve had your say.
Now either shut up and go away or contribute something useful
BTW, anyone making a “new” version of AA50e is just going to have to copy/paste almost word for word from the rules posted here. It’s inevitable. Thus, they are not making a new version.
Perhaps CJ is taking his time reviewing my rules before sending me revisions he likes. Dunno.
I do have responses from him and NONE OF THE RESPONSES say not to use the “enhanced” tag. They are all congratulatory and thankful for the hard work put in. Not a single response contains a critique.
In fact, the only person who seems to have a problem is you, axis_roll. You ever think you just have a fanatic hatred of me instead of having a real argument to stand on? Besides, who died and made you boss? Cousin_Joe has an account here and I do believe he is capable of using the internet himself.
So why don’t you go bugger off and annoy someone else instead of making an arse of yourself here over something you have no control over?
These rules have been accepted just about everywhere at this point. Players may chose to alter them on their own if they like, house rules are house rules, but so far, these are the only OFFICIAL Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition Enhanced Rules. No other AA50e rules exist.
Suggested Topics
