Submersion

[wiseguy]

I’m confused by the sub’s ability to submerge. It says, “any time it would otherwise carry out a surprise attack.” This sounds like it can only submerge when it is attacking. Wouldn’t it make more sense to submerge while defending? I’m basically confused as to when it cannsubmerge.

[Midnight_Reaper]

It would be helpful if you would tell us what game you are referring to, as the rules have been modified from one game to another over the years.

In general, though, the key thing with the submerge-or-surprise-attack rule is that you are doing one of two things - either do a surprise strike with one or more your submarine(s), or you can instead submerge one or more of your submarine(s). The surprise strike is another way to say - attack the warships of another power with your torpedoes. The submerge is another way to say - run away, while you still can.

Either of those choices is acceptable, but once you choose to submerge your sub(s), they are removed from combat and will have to wait for another chance to attack. While submerging while defending is useful, attacking subs can find it useful to submerge as well - such as when the initial attack went poorly and you wish to break off combat before losing too many more of your units.

My 2 IPCs on the subject, anyways.

-Midnight_Reaper

[wiseguy]

@Midnight_Reaper we are playing 1942. So you can submerge whether attacking or defending then?

[Midnight_Reaper]

The only reason in 1942 why you can’t submerge a submarine is when the other side has at least 1 destroyer in the battle. Destroyers cause the submarines of the other side to lose both their submerge ability and the surprise strike ability. Such submarines fire with their fellow attackers and defenders as normal warships do.

An example: Germany has 2 submarines and 1 bomber attacking a UK fleet with 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine, and 3 transports. The German subs lose their surprise strike because of the UK destroyer, the UK sub retains its surprise strike because the Germans have no destroyer in this fight.

Round 1: UK sub makes surprise strike roll, missing. Germany rolls attack for 2 subs and 1 bomber, gets 1 hit - UK loses its destroyer (not the choice I would have made, but I’m making up an example of what would happen if). UK rolls defense for 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer (the submarine already fired), gets 1 hit. Germany takes 1 sub for the hit.

Round 2: Both the remaining German sub and the remaining UK sub get their surprise strike - Germany hits, UK misses. UK now takes the sub for a hit. Germany now rolls attack on the bomber, getting another hit. UK has to take the cruiser for the hit. UK rolls defense on the Cruiser, gets a hit. Germany chooses to lose their remaining submarine.

Round 3: one German bomber and 3 defenseless transports - auto-kill of the transports and any cargo by the bomber. End of combat.

At any point in this example, any of the submarines that were able to roll for surprise strike at that time could have submerged instead of fighting. That would have been only the UK sub in round 1, because the UK destroyer removed the German subs’ surprise strike and submerge abilities. After the destroyer is sunk in round 1, both the UK sub and the German subs could have submerged at the start of round 2. At the start of round 3, the remaining German sub could have submerged, but that player choose to use surprise strike instead.

Clear? Or clear as mud?

-Midnight_Reaper

Edit: Lost track of my subs…

[wiseguy]

@Midnight_Reaper ok. I get all that. Thanks. Funny, we interpreted the surprise element of the submarine as a one-time thing. We thought it wasn’t possible to surprise anyone in second or subsequent combat rounds. Thanks for the help.

[Panther]

@wieguy Welcome to the forum :smiley:

@wieguy said in Submersion:

… we are playing 1942.

I have moved your rules question topic from the “Website/Forum Discussion” to the " Axis & Allies 1942 2nd Edition" category, simply assuming that you referred to this edition of the game.

Please indicate if you meant any other of the “1942” editions and I will move this topic to the appropriate category, then.

[Midnight_Reaper]

@wieguy said in Submersion:

@Midnight_Reaper ok. I get all that. Thanks. Funny, we interpreted the surprise element of the submarine as a one-time thing. We thought it wasn’t possible to surprise anyone in second or subsequent combat rounds. Thanks for the help.

You’re welcome. I’m glad I was able to help.

As for, “We thought it wasn’t possible to surprise anyone in second or subsequent combat rounds”, that is a common misconception with these rules. I don’t know of a better way to phrase it so as to make it more understandable. I will say that in both the first edition and the second edition rules, if you keep reading the rules for combat you get to a point where it says: “Step 6. Press Attack of Retreat - Combat rounds (steps 2-5) continue unless…”. That is on page 18 for both editions. As step 2 of a combat round is the Submarine Surprise Attack of Submerge step, it follows that any surviving subs can continue their sneaky ways until sunk or driven off.

Have fun and enjoy A&A!

-Midnight_Reaper