Life & Love

[AgentOrange]

Well I don’t really want to dig into your private life, so I’ll just say this…

I know what I did in my case.  I also know what the girl did, at least as far as having enough information to know that I was neglected and treated like sh*t.  I also SUSPECT that she was cheating, but can’t prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.  What I do know is that she DID lie to me about something that I had brought to her attention, claiming that it was all rumors and heresay.  I found out from the other party involved that it was indeed true.  Between the break-up and this revelation, she told me that she would still like to be friends, and also said that she had dealt straight with me the whole time, never lying.  Then I find out about this, and, well…

Anyway, you and the girl are the only ones who know the whole story.  What I did in my case is add up everything that I had done to hurt her, and give her the benefit of the doubt about what she had done.  Only when I could PROVE something, did I treat it as actual fact.  And now that I can prove this, I don’t think she deserved me to begin with, and certainly wouldn’t make a good friend either.

So I told mine that I wish I would rather have met her in about 10-15 years, when she was done with scandalous hijinx like this.  The same thing might generally apply to your case; maybe after enough time, she’ll realize that she sh*t on you, and come to terms with the fact that SHE screwed up.  Sorry to imprint my story onto yours, but they just seem remarkably similar.

[Jermofoot]

I have a family friend that I’ve contacted about my rights and responsibilities.  The thing is, she got pissy when I told her my parents recommended seeing a lawyer just to know what’s up.  But she understood later, and her parents thought it was a good idea as well.

My parents know everything: my mistakes and hers.  But she has never said a word to her parents and believes that they don’t have any business with the matter.  I feel bad that she can’t talk to her parents and that she is afraid to do so.  She thinks they will judge her (and they would) about how this went down and how much she’s been going out lately and staying out so late (4, 5, or 6am).  She was upset when I naturally told her she is neglecting her status as a mother, besides disrespecting me.

And yeah, I warned her that I’m going to be cutting a lot of stuff off.  She can’t have her cake and eat it too.

But I would gladly give everything up just to have her again…or to have never had this other guy happen.  Who she is still into…

I’ve read a bunch of stuff on what I need to do, and no I need to do it, but damn, I can’t shake this.  It’s infested my mind.  I just know I’ll come out of it, but why does it have to happen?

[Imperious Leader]

I just know I’ll come out of it, but why does it have to happen?

Because you want to keep all your options open and you can only choose one option ( the cake and eat it too problem is also your problem IMO)

[balungaloaf]

there is always life after.

hell they came out with youporn.com didnt they!

other than that, things can be done….its seldom true that things cant ever be done about a situation.

[Guest]

OK, you are now in no-mans-land… neither split up, nor together.

PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT!  I cannot stress this enough.

If you have a joint account, take control of it, and use it ONLY to pay joint bills (mortgage/rent, electric, etc.  NEVER trust her to mail checks for monthly bills (I made that mistake also, and ended up FOUR months behind on almost everything before the split as she took cash and ran up debt).

Secure your place EMOTIONALLY with your child.  You should be doing this anyway… being the FATHER.  But it is doubly important now, especially if you want this child to be something other than a monthly check to the Ex, and every other weekend of your life…

Start planning your escape route.  Determine what property of yours you are going to want if you have to move out.  Start checking out apartments, etc. that you can move into and afford.  Move valuables and very important personal items to a safe location (your parents place…).

You can ALWAYS move your stuff back in.  But you can never get it back once it is gone. 
You can’t recover the cash in your bank account when it is gone. 
You can;t get rid of Herpes once you have it (thank the Gods I missed out on that “present” when I split from my Ex)

You HAVE gained temporary stability… TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT to secure your own position.

And, if it does work out, you go back in to the relationship from a position of STRENGTH, not a position of weakness…

[cystic crypt]

@Imperious:

I just know I’ll come out of it, but why does it have to happen?

Because you want to keep all your options open and you can only choose one option ( the cake and eat it too problem is also your problem IMO)

WRONG!!

You fell in love with her, and you did for a reason.  She is imprinted on certain parts of your brain.  The amygdala, specifically, where certain “her” receptors are waiting for their dopamine.  You have memories of the amazing things that she did for you.  She is the mother of your children, and you will see her in their eyes for as long as you live.

For a worthwhile author on this subject (this guy is a genius when it comes to mental/emotional healing - just FYI he does have a “faith background) - Henri Nouwen is a wonderful choice:
Your body needs to be held and to hold, to be touched and to touch. None of these needs is to be despised, denied, or repressed. But you have to keep searching for your body’s deeper need, the need for genuine love. Every time you are able to go beyond the body’s superficial desires for love, you are bringing your body home and moving toward integration and unity.” - The Inner Voice of Love

[Imperious Leader]

You fell in love with her, and you did for a reason.  She is imprinted on certain parts of your brain.  The amygdala, specifically, where certain “her” receptors are waiting for their dopamine.  You have memories of the amazing things that she did for you.  She is the mother of your children, and you will see her in their eyes for as long as you live.

For a worthwhile author on this subject (this guy is a genius when it comes to mental/emotional healing - just FYI he does have a “faith background) - Henri Nouwen is a wonderful choice:
Your body needs to be held and to hold, to be touched and to touch. None of these needs is to be despised, denied, or repressed. But you have to keep searching for your body’s deeper need, the need for genuine love. Every time you are able to go beyond the body’s superficial desires for love, you are bringing your body home and moving toward integration and unity.” - The Inner Voice of Love

I can only assume that was some sort of joke? yes?

Either that or its a South Park  “Mrs. Garrison” type of Rhetorical speech where they make fun of Psychobabble?

[Jermofoot]

That’s good advice, Switch, but I don’t think it’s that bad off.

She basically kicked me out, but since I paid all of Sept. rent and bills, I said no until Oct. 1st.

I’ve already rented a storage facility and have moved most of it there.  Pretty much everything will be gone by this weekend.  Only a few things will remain, which I’m pretty much lending because I don’t need them and don’t care to have them (pots & pans, tv, vcr/dvd combo, etc.) and don’t want her to get completely pissed at me, even though she should understand. I’ll be moving in with my parents, who are pretty excited, and will be saving a ton of money to buy a house or go back to school.  Oh yeah, and getting that pilot’s license.

We never had a shared bank account, I just paid for everything.  But all the bills except the phone are in her name, so not much to do there.  She’s going to have a heck of a time because she is financially strapped ($4k in credit card debt on frivolous purchases), needs another roommate, and probably won’t give up her spending habits.  I’m only going to be giving her about $200 a month, but it’s not going to be enough if she doesn’t change quite a bit.

I’ve been spending a hell of a lot of time with my son as he is the only thing that makes me feel better.  Not to mention watching him as she’s been going out more and more. But I will be seeing him less, and that makes me so sad.

So it will be cut off time very soon, and I’m worried about her health.  But I’ve come to understand that I have to worry about my own and move on.  Unfortunately, we will be attached forever, but that just may be the thing that brings her back.  I hope for it, but not holding my breath.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[dezrtfish]

I think if things ever go bad between my wife and I, I’ll probably move to LA and become a porn star for a few years, that should fix all those pesky brain chemicals!  You might want to think about that…

Hey, I just remembmered, my wife has a girlfriend in Tomahawk, last I knew she was single… :wink:

[stuka pilot]

For myself, the idea is to go as long as humanly possible to not use the word “love”. I know it must sound rediculous but I have found that when the moment that word gets blurted out in a relationship, everything else from then on is compounded and intesified. They say it too much…. they don’t say it enough… they looked at someone else for too long… you become way more paranoid… on guard…
Arguments can get more serious. Feelings can be hurt easier…
I have been with my girlfriend for almost a year now. And it has been tempting to take it into the lover’s realm. But since I have held back, our relationship is in good standing.

Now I know some of you will not agree. And I understand that. But when it comes to a situation like Jermo here has, it would be easier for him to let go without having to feel ripped off by a simple word.

Let her go, dude. And show her you can without regret. That will hit hardest for her and allow you to keep a whole lot of dignity.

[stuka pilot]

@Imperious:

After reading “Civilization and its Discontents” from Sigmund Freud many times you will come to recognize the essential goals of men and women as well as needs of the larger framework of how the base animal instincts tend to overcome us and get us into trouble leading to financial disaster and moral ruin. With this in mind i have established many long term relationships always by being totally up front and making sure the woman knows very firmly that:

1. I will not permit any relationship that leads to marriage/Kids which basically amounts to the loss of personal freedom.
2. A woman must have her own career and very successful at it and derives satisfaction at her own success. (hence a strong woman).
3. Everything has its own time and place. Prior friendships are never lost nor forgotten they remain into the afterlife. New relationships do not “override” prior ones.
4. Friendship is forever– lust and love are transitory feelings never trust them they will deceive you at first advantage
5. Men create civilization and women have the inclination to keep it going. Men= Ideals/ pursuit of Reason and create ideas while Women= feelings,simple family life, base instincts.
6. Never let a women feel she is important too often. A weak man lets a woman decide too many things in his life and it leads to his downfall eventually.

That’s a good list.

[Nuclear]

My advice never get married unless it involves some long legal document that sets everything out.  Keep all bank accounts seperated.

Other than that I do not believe in love.  I do not think anyone can really have a connection to someone else.  The very idea is beyond me.  I have been studying it for years yet alone trying to figure out this thing people call love.  When I go out with a girl, I never have a connection or this feeling that people say exists.

Perhaps it because I am the kind of guy that needs a rational explanation for everything.  I will not just take things on faith or because someone said it.  I would like to say that by having that trait it makes me wise.  However it makes some aspects of life hard.

In short, love does not exist.  Do not fool yourself.  And forget about women.

[AgentOrange]

I don’t know if that’s exactly what the man wants to hear right now, but what do I know…  :-P

[Jermofoot]

@Nuclear:

My advice never get married unless it involves some long legal document that sets everything out.  Keep all bank accounts seperated.

Other than that I do not believe in love.  I do not think anyone can really have a connection to someone else.  The very idea is beyond me.  I have been studying it for years yet alone trying to figure out this thing people call love.  When I go out with a girl, I never have a connection or this feeling that people say exists.

Perhaps it because I am the kind of guy that needs a rational explanation for everything.  I will not just take things on faith or because someone said it.  I would like to say that by having that trait it makes me wise.  However it makes some aspects of life hard.

In short, love does not exist.  Do not fool yourself.  And forget about women.

Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree (women)?

I can’t forget about them, especially if I love them and have a huge history and a child with them.  It’s not as if I just went on a few dates…

@AgentOrange:

I don’t know if that’s exactly what the man wants to hear right now, but what do I know…  :-P

Well, some people say to get mad, because that can help you heal.  I’m looking for closer in a more positive way.

It seems to be unanimous from what I’ve read that you let go, no contact, and heal yourself through positive thinking, behavior, and actions.  Then they may come back.  When you are around them, or instigate contact again, you take it slowly, treat them like a queen, and show them again what they fell in love with.  Most of all, make it fun, don’t bring up the pain, and do your own thing.  If it was meant to be…it comes back.

[Guest]

Actually, you give NO thought to getting back together.  Otherwise you DON’T heal… you just sit around nursing an open festering wound.  You have to honestly LET GO, and then you heal :-).

Also, for future contact, you do NOT treat them as a queen.  You treat her civilly, with respect and courtesy, like you would any other human being.  If you treat her like a queen, that simply reinforces your open festering wound, and give her all the benefits of your previous relationship that she might want, with no commitment and no obligation.

From the sounds of it, you REALLY need to come to grips with it being over, and that it is almost certainly over permanently…

[dezrtfish]

@Nuclear:

And forget about women.

:-o :-o :-o :-o :-o

What’s the alternative?

[AgentOrange]

@ncscswitch:

Actually, you give NO thought to getting back together.  Otherwise you DON’T heal… you just sit around nursing an open festering wound.  You have to honestly LET GO, and then you heal :-).

Also, for future contact, you do NOT treat them as a queen.  You treat her civilly, with respect and courtesy, like you would any other human being.  If you treat her like a queen, that simply reinforces your open festering wound, and give her all the benefits of your previous relationship that she might want, with no commitment and no obligation.

From the sounds of it, you REALLY need to come to grips with it being over, and that it is almost certainly over permanently…

Actually, I didn’t want to say this, and I’m definitely no expert in the ways of love, but I have felt at times like this is exactly what applies to me as well.  Thanks switch, it sounds like very good advice, for Jermo and for me.  All I’ll say, and this is to add to switch’s advice, is that my ex has come to me several times since the breakup, basically seeking to be involved in my life in some way or another.  The other day, she approached me and offered to buy me and my roommate a few drinks, to say “Thank you for helping me get my car to the shop to get fixed.”  When I told my roommate about it, his answer was about the same as mine - Simply saying “Thank You” was enough, and he also said that if he were to accept such an invitation, it wouldn’t be from her.  My point is, I have no intention of letting this girl back in my life, and the more she pushes it, the more disconnected I’m gonna become.  If she asks me why, or what the problem is, then I’d let her know that I DID treat her like a queen, but since that apparently meant nothing to her, then she deserves to get cut off.  I already have, and it seems she doesn’t get it.  Maybe I should be a bit more of an a$$hole…  :-P

[Jermofoot]

Well, right, I’m not expecting to get back together.  I have hope from what our mutual friends say to me.  But I know it won’t happen now.  The only thing I need to do is keep it out of mind, or any images of her farking another guy (or girl…she is open to that).

I need to do my thing.  And maybe if she comes around again (and it’s not like I can entirely avoid her because of our son), I don’t do that smothering thing.  I mean, I need to show her what she liked about me again, so I will avoid the heavy crap.  But I do have to cut her off.  I’ve been enabling her to do many things (walking over me) since she gets pissed when I put up a fight.

You’re right, Switch. I can’t come to grips.  A little bit everyday, and I know what I need to do, it’s just so hard to put into action.  That tells me I truly love her.  Not that I need her, I want her, and want to be happy.  But it took me a second to realize she’s taking advantage of me.  She doesn’t think so, and doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong, but once I remove myself, she will know the reality of her actions.

But I do want her in my life.  More than just as my son’s mother.  I do.  This last month or so isn’t her.  It simply isn’t.  She may be going crazy or something, cooped up in the hen house, but she helped to make it that way.  So we’ll see.  If she’s changed for good, then I don’t want her.  I feel left out on the dating game anyway…time to test a few new vehicles.

[frood]

Jermofoot, you sound like a really solid guy - I’m impressed with the fact that despite everything that’s been done to you, you are primarily motivated by love for your kid, for this woman and also for yourself. You are obviously very hurt but it sounds like you are doing all the right things - you are keeping the door open but also preparing to move on and starting to accept that you may just have to.

I would focus on just being a great dad to your son, which it sounds like you are. Don’t keep him from his mother, but the more time you spend with him, the more stable and reliable you are and the more of his needs you take care of, the better it will be for him.

And, incidentally, if it comes down to a custody battle (let’s hope not) those are the things that will help you to get the kind of arrangement that you will be happy with.

Keep your chin up. You sound like a really great guy and it’s too bad that your partner is going through whatever crisis she is going through. It’s good to take responsibility for your part in the relationship, but don’t blaime yourself, she’s the one doing this - this is not the appropriate response to anything you might have done in the relationship.

Just be there for your kid and yourself first. If she wants to be part of that circle of support, she will have to decide that she wants back in, and ask your forgiveness before you reconnect. Do NOT let her take advantage of you and string you along with mixed messages, because she’ll think she can have it all somehow.

It’s too bad this happened, but they just do. I’ve felt the beginnings of crushes on other women since getting married - it’s just natural. If it wasn’t there’d be no need to tell people to be faithful. There’s nothing in our brains to stop us falling in love with another person when we are already in a long-term relationship. But you have to be disciplined and say “No” and realize what’s important in the long term. Sounds like she was unable to do this, unfortunately this has consequences for you and your son.

There’s absolutely nothing fair about it, I don’t know if that makes it better or worse, that’s just how it is.

So in conclusion:

1. I’m sorry
2. You seem like a solid, awesome guy and a great dad
3. Keep your chin up

[balungaloaf]

yeah, you cant be controlled or owned.

i have a buddy since preschool, so i’ve known him for 18 years and been friends with him for that long, even since the little tyke play dates.

he’s getting married to a girl all the rest of us hate.  b/c we havent really hung out with him for 1 1/2 years.  and they havent been even dating a full 2 years.

he had never been kissed before this girl came along when he was 22.  and she knew that.  she threw her sex at him and he loved it.  we were stoked for him.  but he’s now just controlled and cant or wont do anything b/c that will make her mad.

everytime he tries to stick up for himself it doesnt work.  i’ve seen her storm out of his birthday party at the bar b/c she wanted to leave and he wanted to stay with his sisters and friends he seldom sees.  she couldnt take that i guess.  she is soooo controlling.  i continually wish bad things to happen to her.

but i talked to him at the bar about a month ago and he brought up marriage.  i asked why he would bring that up, and he said b/c she’s been talking about it alot.  and i went “oh no” in my mind.  she has successfully got him away from his lifelong friends, b/c we all think she’s a bitch and have told him that, and he knows she’s a bitch but tries to defend it by saying she didnt have many friends and isnt that sociable.  we call that bullshit.

anyhoo….now after pressuring him into marriage, she wants them to move to alaska.  thats b/c she knows we are her biggest threat to her complete domination of the poor guy, so she wants to get away from us.  he’s had trouble after graduation finding an engineering job, but she says her uncle will get him one in Anchorage.  and now she went a bought a puppy and has it stay at her place.  she lives there, but doesnt pay rent.  which we know is f’ed up, but he doesnt care, he’s getting laid.  when is parents who own the house come by, she has to leave, b/c she is not supposed to be living there, especially not paying rent.  even his sisters dont like her, but we all love the kid and try to be supportive, but know this relationship cant last b/c after the years he will freak out about not being in control of his own life.

women complicate things…why cant they shut up, put out, clean, cook, have our children and raise them, pamper men,  and f’ing like it that way?  i think men have to do their duty and put women back in their proper place.  except our new society has screwed that up, thats why many many relationships dont work out.

i feel sorry for all the wrongs men do women, and if we could just rise up as a nation and show them they aint shit, things would be alot better.  but that would be sexist wouldnt it.  and nobody likes to be called an “ist” anymore.  even when they know its not being an “ist” its looking at the situation at large and seeing that there is something messed up that is driving breakups and divorces to an all time high.

my rant is over, jermo sorry man, i hope stuff works as best as it possibly can.