Margin Call on America

What did they do?  examples…

So just curious, but WorldCom resulted in Perp Walks, Enron resulted in Perp Walks, Martha Stewart Gate resulted in perp walks.  Where are the perp walks for fannie mae and freddie mac now that they’ve bilked the American people out of 700 billion dollars and collecting 100 million in personal income while cooking the books???

im not american but how good is your health care o offense is it cheaper sicne you dotn pay with taxes?
id liek to know this from an american view because me and many fellow canadians think you gus pay $50 000 on a broken leg $500 on a box of pills
so please set this straight for me

I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.  It covers everything.  100% generic prescriptions, 1 visit a year for vision check up, 100% dental (includes all crowns, bridges, orthodontics, cleanings etc) and it covers all but $5/copay on name brand prescriptions.

Honestly, any program offered is worse than the one I have currently.  There’s no way any government could do better, IMHO.  Especially since my $4,320 a year is tax deductible (meaning my taxes are lower and my EITC - earned income tax credit - usually offsets this amount by a lot, especially when my mortgage shield is in place.)

BTW, that plan is Blue Cross/Blue Shield (huge name brand, recognized in every state of the union at least, I think internationally too) and is NOT EMPLOYER PROVIDED!  This is just a private citizen calling the insurance companies and working out a deal all by herself, just like any schmuck could do.

OH! I still like are way better sorry :-o.
i think that if you are american thats good but if your canadian we would say it sucks so im gonna say ntohing no comment

@Cmdr:

I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.  It covers everything.  100% generic prescriptions, 1 visit a year for vision check up, 100% dental (includes all crowns, bridges, orthodontics, cleanings etc) and it covers all but $5/copay on name brand prescriptions.

Honestly, any program offered is worse than the one I have currently.  There’s no way any government could do better, IMHO.  Especially since my $4,320 a year is tax deductible (meaning my taxes are lower and my EITC - earned income tax credit - usually offsets this amount by a lot, especially when my mortgage shield is in place.)

BTW, that plan is Blue Cross/Blue Shield (huge name brand, recognized in every state of the union at least, I think internationally too) and is NOT EMPLOYER PROVIDED!  This is just a private citizen calling the insurance companies and working out a deal all by herself, just like any schmuck could do.

You’re gettin ripped off. My coverage is better and cheaper. Tough luck.

Are you sure it’s better and cheaper?

That’s the major problem.  With a universal coverage plan everyone’s policies seem better and cheaper on paper, but then why would large numbers of people from universal coverage plans come to nations without them to get medical treatment?  Perhaps it is better and cheaper to keep what we have?

As my doctor says when you complain about being ill, if it is not broken, then don’t fix it.  The system is currently not broken.  And if it is broken, it’s because many people think they need a plan from a government or corporation.  Since all health care is already tax deductible, why not just make it tax deductible with a $3,000 individual/$5,000 family stipend instead?  Then if you don’t want healthcare, you get extra cash, if you do want it, you can go buy it from another state or agency instead of being locked into what is offered locally.

For criminy, I live in the most heavily taxed area of the country, if I can afford health care for an entire family for less than $5k a year, and we have really awesome coverage since EVERYTHING IS COVERED, yes, if you get a bloody nose, and go see an ear nose and throat specialist, it is covered!, then everyone can.

Um… dude are taxes might be high but not every american can pay for ur 5k a year and what about schools are taxes go for schools and health care with are high taxes barely anyone goes broke.
Health care in canada is not the best actually germany has the best  health care then great britian then france then canada. I actually saw a movie about health in the usa and the guy who did it explained how when he broke his arm he would have been broke 13 000$! usa is getting better though.  Also you know that bad fire that happened i forge the name in usa and it was huge well many fire fighters and volunteers did not get the health care while the volunteers did not get coverage the fire fighters did not and they are FIRE FIGHTERS! THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED AND ONLY IF CORRECTLY 2% OF THE HELPERS GOT THE TREATMENT. i just asked to see the difference and know how i see the difference i like canada better in health and schooling

Most of America already pays for $5k or more for corporate provided healthcare.  The difference is that giving everyone a pre-bate check for $5k could result in many Americans continuing to CHOSE not to have health care insurance instead investing that money into emergency medical bonds (an option currently available, you just put the money into a bond at your local bank, it pays 5.25% +/- depending on what CD Rates are for 5 year term CDs and if you have a medical emergency, you can draw off it without penalty.)  Others can CHOOSE to get coverage like mine from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which covers 100% of medical, dental and optical with a very small copay on NAME BRAND drugs (generics are free.  Basically, this is Germany’s plan, but instead of the government taxing us for it, I bought it from a private company and can leave when I want and go to a competitor.)

Also, schools are funded through property taxes, not income taxes, so diverting the funds for health care from your paycheck just like they are deducted now will have zero impact on school funding.

Also, I would like to state that Michael Moore movies are fictional pieces.  Sicko is not an accurate depiction of healthcare in America where you can get the flu, go to the emergency room, and be seen by a physician for free at any hospital in the nation, with or without health care.

@Cmdr:

Most of America already pays for $5k or more for corporate provided healthcare.  The difference is that giving everyone a pre-bate check for $5k could result in many Americans continuing to CHOSE not to have health care insurance instead investing that money into emergency medical bonds (an option currently available, you just put the money into a bond at your local bank, it pays 5.25% +/- depending on what CD Rates are for 5 year term CDs and if you have a medical emergency, you can draw off it without penalty.)  Others can CHOOSE to get coverage like mine from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which covers 100% of medical, dental and optical with a very small copay on NAME BRAND drugs (generics are free.  Basically, this is Germany’s plan, but instead of the government taxing us for it, I bought it from a private company and can leave when I want and go to a competitor.)

Also, schools are funded through property taxes, not income taxes, so diverting the funds for health care from your paycheck just like they are deducted now will have zero impact on school funding.

Also, I would like to state that Michael Moore movies are fictional pieces.  Sicko is not an accurate depiction of healthcare in America where you can get the flu, go to the emergency room, and be seen by a physician for free at any hospital in the nation, with or without health care.

Where are you getting your Blue Cross coverage? I have Blue Cross, and my generics are $8 each.

This seems to hard to believe:

I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.

Full coverage for a generic family of four (Male, female, aged 30, no preexisting conditions; 2 kids, age 10, no preexisting conditions) is $758 a month. https://services.hscil.com/il/eapp/wxpm1653.pl?source=WEBIL00100

Edit: You’ll have to generate your own family for the link to give you a quote.

That plan also has an $1100 individual deductible ($2200 family).

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois.

$90.00 Per Week Maximum 4 Weeks per month (so really 48 weeks = $4,320)

100% Dental Covered
100% Vision Covered
100% Generic Prescriptions Covered
$5/CoPay Name Brand Prescriptions Covered.

This is NOT company sponsored, it is DIRECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.  You will, of course, have to use a quoting service.  Of course, to make his point, Smacktard specifically did NOT use services such as ican.com and the literally hundreds of other quoting services out there.

What happens is the quoting service groups you with others like you and then goes to the insurance company and negotiates a rate based on your demographics.  So my $90/week for 48 weeks a year was probably offered to a million other people just like me.

BTW, there are no deductibles to deal with.  You can ask for plans with them, but I chose not to get them and to pay the like three dollars a week difference.

I know Blue Cross does this, Metlife does it and so does United Health Care (UHC).  I’m sure there are others, and they may even be cheaper.

The point is, we do not need to “fix” health care insurance in this country.  We already have the best possible health care insurance in the world.  What we need to do is fix the tax situation on health care insurance.  I have to pay taxes on the money I earn that pays for health care because it is not company provided.  Others who use company provided insurance get to pay for their insurance out of their net and pay taxes on what is left after paying for it.  If we just allowed all health insurance payments to be tax exempt, no one would need company provided health care insurance which would make it easier to transition from one employer to another. (Since you won’t have to wait the pre-requisite 9 months or whatever it is to get your preexisting conditions covered.  Since you won’t change providers or policies, then there would be no waiting period!)

Now, add to that the FACT you can go to the emergency room FOR FREE for any injury or illness, without regard to your citizenship status for FREE medical treatment and you have to wonder - where’s the crisis???

Now, back on topic, when will the government learn they have to SHUT UP.  Everytime they open their mouths the DOW drops 200 points.  Everytime they pass a law the DOW drops 600 points!  This is the worst legislative administration in American history and it is destroying the international economy!

We need to get Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, anyone even remotely related to A.C.O.R.N. and all the other crooks that stopped the reform of the housing industry in 2003 and put them in jail!

less political please….this thread is marginally treading into political issues.

Well, I’m trying to get at law enforcement, not political agendas.  A thief is a thief regardless of the color of his or her tie, IMHO.

@Cmdr:

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois.

$90.00 Per Week Maximum 4 Weeks per month (so really 48 weeks = $4,320)

100% Dental Covered
100% Vision Covered
100% Generic Prescriptions Covered
$5/CoPay Name Brand Prescriptions Covered.

This is NOT company sponsored, it is DIRECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.  You will, of course, have to use a quoting service.  Of course, to make his point, Smacktard specifically did NOT use services such as ican.com and the literally hundreds of other quoting services out there.

What happens is the quoting service groups you with others like you and then goes to the insurance company and negotiates a rate based on your demographics.  So my $90/week for 48 weeks a year was probably offered to a million other people just like me.

BTW, there are no deductibles to deal with.  You can ask for plans with them, but I chose not to get them and to pay the like three dollars a week difference.

I know Blue Cross does this, Metlife does it and so does United Health Care (UHC).  I’m sure there are others, and they may even be cheaper.

The point is, we do not need to “fix” health care insurance in this country.  We already have the best possible health care insurance in the world.  What we need to do is fix the tax situation on health care insurance.  I have to pay taxes on the money I earn that pays for health care because it is not company provided.  Others who use company provided insurance get to pay for their insurance out of their net and pay taxes on what is left after paying for it.  If we just allowed all health insurance payments to be tax exempt, no one would need company provided health care insurance which would make it easier to transition from one employer to another. (Since you won’t have to wait the pre-requisite 9 months or whatever it is to get your preexisting conditions covered.  Since you won’t change providers or policies, then there would be no waiting period!)

Now, add to that the FACT you can go to the emergency room FOR FREE for any injury or illness, without regard to your citizenship status for FREE medical treatment and you have to wonder - where’s the crisis???

---

Now, back on topic, when will the government learn they have to SHUT UP.  Everytime they open their mouths the DOW drops 200 points.  Everytime they pass a law the DOW drops 600 points!  This is the worst legislative administration in American history and it is destroying the international economy!

We need to get Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, anyone even remotely related to A.C.O.R.N. and all the other crooks that stopped the reform of the housing industry in 2003 and put them in jail!

Aren’t you a teacher? I’ve never heard of a public school teacher having to shop around for health insurance. Are you telling us you weren’t automatically enrolled in a group plan when you were hired? I know Chicago teachers have a choice of PPO or HMO coverage: http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Careers/benefits.htm

So what is this bass-ackwards district you work at that doesn’t provide health care to its members?

Oh, and emergency room care isn’t free. You WILL get a bill from the hospital. Whether you can pay it or not is an entirely different thing. Maybe you’re confusing “will not turn away due to lack of money” with “free”.

Chicago Public Schools have a different teacher union than charter schools in Streamwood, Smack.  I know that’s not common knowledge so you were probably unaware of that.

Our union negotiated a credit from the schools in our district that we could apply to our own health insurance plans that we bought from a second party.  Primarily the cause was a change in policy of United Health Care which applied the copay to each line item in a bill (which for a child birth has A LOT OF LINE ITEMS!  You have anesthesia, you have room charges, food charges, medicine charges, specialist charges, nursery charges, etc…it adds up fast!)  Instead of dropping UHC altogether, we negotiated with the school for a clause that allowed us to find a different policy somewhere else and have that amount auto-debited from our paychecks (kinda like what happens for your payroll taxes and if the courts garnish your wages, etc) and applied to our insurance bills.  The only problem with this plan is that if we don’t go with the UHC plan we have to pay taxes on the wages earned that are spent on health insurance.

Thing is, however, UHC was charging us a lot more than BCBS is charging me and providing worse coverage.  I, personally, think the reason for that was because we were a captive set of customers.  We had to use UHC so they could screw us.  Now we can shop around and with the market the way it is, other providers are dying to get us onto their books and so gave us a relatively great deal. (Relative to UHC.)

And I am not confusing will not turn away with free.  They will not turn you away, even if you have never paid an emergency room bill.  Therefore, since you don’t have to pay for services rendered, by definition, it is free.