@Uberlager:

@Cmdr:

Not really looking at GDP.  China owns the United States by owning our debt.  So how can we possibly be richer than they are?

GDP sure seems to me like an adequate measure of national wealth.  You’re also blowing our debt owned by China way out of proportion.  As of 11/08, China only owns 22% of our debt, or $682 billion.  How is 682 > 14,330???

@Cmdr:

Anyway, not saying our system is the best system possible, but it is better than the systems that are centrally controlled by an agency without competition. (Whether that is a government, a company or another single controlling agency)

Define “better”.

GDP is a good measure, but doesn’t capture the essence of the broad spectrum of problems of our economy. Jen is right, in a sense. China does not have crushing liabilities to deal with, like we do. China is not running up $400 billion trade deficits, like we have. China is not bogged down in two wars, as we are.

If we sold every asset in this country right now, we would not have the money to meet our S.S. and Medicare/Medical obligations. China is worried about GDP SLOWING to 5%. We are already experiencing NEGATIVE 6% GDP. Just think of it this way: who has the money to buy our debt these days?

@Imperious:

I boycott all movies that have to resort to using ideas from comic books for a plot.

Its so ridiculous to me to even have movies like this unless your like 8 years old. I used to watch Ultraman and Giant Robot and Gigantor but i don’t need to have some bloke waste 200 million and make some ubermodern interpretation of a childish idea. Its like going to Dave and Busters  ( Chuck E Cheese for adults) and acting like an idiot winning those stupid yellow tickets so i can buy more Chinese finger pulls. I might as well start wearing a bib and go ga ga.

This fails on so many levels. To be a snob is one thing. To be a snob in the capacity of a forum moderator for a gaming website devoted to a game that perhaps 1% of the population has heard of is pathetically hilarious.

The head of my gaming group is a GS15 engineer working at Edward’s who has about 20 grand in comics. You want to see unemployed fat guys who are wasting their lives? Ever host an A&A party?  :lol:  Or been a member of a hardcore raiding guild in EQ or WOW? Or been to an MTG tournament?

I personally can’t stand comics and Watchmen sucked (saw it last night). But hey, to each his own, right? Who am I to judge? One man’s “Watchmen” is another man’s
“The Professional” (which was equally ridiculous, but didn’t suck).

Actually, a majority of scientists believe man-made global warming is real: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/19/eco.globalwarmingsurvey/index.html

“Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.”

…

"Two questions were key: Have mean global temperatures risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and has human activity been a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures?

About 90 percent of the scientists agreed with the first question and 82 percent the second.  The strongest consensus on the causes of global warming came from climatologists who are active in climate research, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role.

Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 percent and 64 percent, respectively, believing in human involvement."

The only group that was not a majority were petroleum geologists, who do not study climate or the weather.

The kindest thing that could be said against man-made global warming is that our climate models are not accurate enough to pinpoint the cause. Maybe it’s a purely natural phenemenon. Even assuming that to be true, it doesn’t follow that we should do nothing. If it IS a purely natural phenemenon, and we reduce pollution, the worst that could be said is we sacrificed some worldwide GDP to make the world a cleaner place. If it is MAN-MADE, and we do nothing, the worst that could be said is we failed to prevent a potentially catastrophic change in climate. Do we really want to gamble with something as all-encompassing as the climate of the Earth? Are a few percentage points of GDP really that important?

DOW dropped below 8,000 for the first time in five years. It has a negative growth rate over 10 years, and has only doubled in the last 15 (was at 3500 in 1993). I’ve lost about ten grand in the market over the last two months, but am in a pension plan so it’s not life or death for me. How’s everyone else doing?

@Imperious:

I removed some offending posts recently posted.

Smacktard: i notice a pattern which i can now confirm… you only show up to retort Jennifer and attempt to get into fisticuffs out of some need to dominate whatever view she has. It leads to contentiousness and we cant have any of that.

I have no idea why you decide to ONLY show up when she posts, but your tone needs to stop.

Too bad you missed the thread right next to this where I AGREE with Jen (there should have been a woman on the poll) and argue against Frimmel’s idea that women don’t have it that rough.

his thread was just about the communication skills of our new president. Its not about how your rhetoric can overcome another.

Actually, it’s about the communication skills of the guy who DIDN’T win (Mccain). I wrote a whole paragraph complimenting those skills, the graciousness of Bush during the transition phase, and expressing my sympathy for Obama and all the problems confronting him.

Somehow it got erased.

@frimmel:

You know I found a woman in congress to.

LOL! Was she hiding under a rock? There are actually 68 in the House and 14 in the Senate. Which is good because women are 15% of the population  :roll:

@Cmdr:

You are quite correct in your literal interpretation of the US Constitution.  But let us remember that the US Constitution was not imposed before, during or immediately after the American Revolution but at least a decade later.

Anyway, I believe almost unilaterally most, if not all, of the authors of our freedom, from the layman with his rifle hiding in a muddy puddle along the road to shoot at red coats, all the way up to the lofty dignitaries like Thomas Jefferson would state, very emphatically, that taxation is a method to raise money in times of very dire need, not an existence that should be experienced on a daily basis as the “norm.”

We also weren’t trusted to vote for president back then. Times change. If you want to spend $12 billion a month on war, you gotta pay for it. Ditto for Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, the interstate highway system, trips to the moon, national parks, etc.

As I said, we’ve had a progressive income tax in place for over 90 years (and no, “progressive income tax” is not political- the two major parties in this country are, and have  been, perfectly content to keep it in place), and it certainly hasn’t stood in the way of our progression to superpower.

Correction: progressive income taxation started during the Civil War:

“During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate.”

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html

So it’s been in place for the last 145 years.

The reason I feel comfortable saying this is because of how loathe all the important men in American history have been to implement any form of tax throughout our early history.  This is not to make an argument that taxes are good or bad, but rather an argument to state that at the time this nation was building the foundation of itself that made us great, taxes were viewed upon with great distaste and, at times, hostile resistance.

So were foreign entanglements. Is there a single successful industriliazed democratic nation without an income tax? I honestly don’t know. I know the norm is income taxation.

So it seems plainly obvious that taxes, levied on any portion or the whole of the people, were not the cause of us becoming a great nation, but rather, despite the very short periods of time taxes were levied on the people, we grew to greatness anyway.

Uh huh. So 140 years is a “very short period of time”? Riiight.  :roll:

I think it should be pointed out that for the last 90 years or so, while America emerged as a superpower (and has retained that status for decades), we’ve had progressive income taxation. Some might even call it… wealth redistribution

@Cmdr:

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois.

$90.00 Per Week Maximum 4 Weeks per month (so really 48 weeks = $4,320)

100% Dental Covered
100% Vision Covered
100% Generic Prescriptions Covered
$5/CoPay Name Brand Prescriptions Covered.

This is NOT company sponsored, it is DIRECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.  You will, of course, have to use a quoting service.  Of course, to make his point, Smacktard specifically did NOT use services such as ican.com and the literally hundreds of other quoting services out there.

What happens is the quoting service groups you with others like you and then goes to the insurance company and negotiates a rate based on your demographics.  So my $90/week for 48 weeks a year was probably offered to a million other people just like me.

BTW, there are no deductibles to deal with.  You can ask for plans with them, but I chose not to get them and to pay the like three dollars a week difference.

I know Blue Cross does this, Metlife does it and so does United Health Care (UHC).  I’m sure there are others, and they may even be cheaper.

The point is, we do not need to “fix” health care insurance in this country.  We already have the best possible health care insurance in the world.  What we need to do is fix the tax situation on health care insurance.  I have to pay taxes on the money I earn that pays for health care because it is not company provided.  Others who use company provided insurance get to pay for their insurance out of their net and pay taxes on what is left after paying for it.  If we just allowed all health insurance payments to be tax exempt, no one would need company provided health care insurance which would make it easier to transition from one employer to another. (Since you won’t have to wait the pre-requisite 9 months or whatever it is to get your preexisting conditions covered.  Since you won’t change providers or policies, then there would be no waiting period!)

Now, add to that the FACT you can go to the emergency room FOR FREE for any injury or illness, without regard to your citizenship status for FREE medical treatment and you have to wonder - where’s the crisis???

---

Now, back on topic, when will the government learn they have to SHUT UP.  Everytime they open their mouths the DOW drops 200 points.  Everytime they pass a law the DOW drops 600 points!  This is the worst legislative administration in American history and it is destroying the international economy!

We need to get Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, anyone even remotely related to A.C.O.R.N. and all the other crooks that stopped the reform of the housing industry in 2003 and put them in jail!

Aren’t you a teacher? I’ve never heard of a public school teacher having to shop around for health insurance. Are you telling us you weren’t automatically enrolled in a group plan when you were hired? I know Chicago teachers have a choice of PPO or HMO coverage: http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Careers/benefits.htm

So what is this bass-ackwards district you work at that doesn’t provide health care to its members?

Oh, and emergency room care isn’t free. You WILL get a bill from the hospital. Whether you can pay it or not is an entirely different thing. Maybe you’re confusing “will not turn away due to lack of money” with “free”.

@Cmdr:

Most of America already pays for $5k or more for corporate provided healthcare.  The difference is that giving everyone a pre-bate check for $5k could result in many Americans continuing to CHOSE not to have health care insurance instead investing that money into emergency medical bonds (an option currently available, you just put the money into a bond at your local bank, it pays 5.25% +/- depending on what CD Rates are for 5 year term CDs and if you have a medical emergency, you can draw off it without penalty.)  Others can CHOOSE to get coverage like mine from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which covers 100% of medical, dental and optical with a very small copay on NAME BRAND drugs (generics are free.  Basically, this is Germany’s plan, but instead of the government taxing us for it, I bought it from a private company and can leave when I want and go to a competitor.)

Also, schools are funded through property taxes, not income taxes, so diverting the funds for health care from your paycheck just like they are deducted now will have zero impact on school funding.

Also, I would like to state that Michael Moore movies are fictional pieces.  Sicko is not an accurate depiction of healthcare in America where you can get the flu, go to the emergency room, and be seen by a physician for free at any hospital in the nation, with or without health care.

Where are you getting your Blue Cross coverage? I have Blue Cross, and my generics are $8 each.

This seems to hard to believe:

I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.

Full coverage for a generic family of four (Male, female, aged 30, no preexisting conditions; 2 kids, age 10, no preexisting conditions) is $758 a month. https://services.hscil.com/il/eapp/wxpm1653.pl?source=WEBIL00100

Edit: You’ll have to generate your own family for the link to give you a quote.

That plan also has an $1100 individual deductible ($2200 family).