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U.S.A Playbook: suggestions for countering a J1 attack



  • My friend is whinning that the game has swung to far toward the Axis favor after using Cow’s J1 strategy, so I thought I would start a thread to find out how America and the Allies can ballance the game again, any ideas?


  • 2016 2015 '10

    Use a descending auction bid to determine who gets Allies.  The right placement bid will make life slightly more difficult for Western Axis, and this will provide the balance you want.



  • Saw a guy bid an inf in NG, saves an anzac transport to get the NO. Pretty cool idea.



  • We were thinking about adding a Battleship in Pearl Harbor as part of the initial set up. Historically acurate and quite the boost to silence all the bitchin. Eithier that or exchange the Cruiser in Pearl Harbor for a Battleship.


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    For a 1st turn Japan declaration of war, aggressive Russian / Chinese play against Japan, very heavy naval build by US in Pacific for the first 3 turns. Once UK manages to consolidate its navy, then turn heavy Atlantic to prevent Germany to crush Russia?

    I think all nations in the Pacific need to respond aggressively and decisively early on, to contain Japan’s initial onslaught. After a little while, Japan will run out of steam and the US can turn to the Atlantic.


  • TripleA

    This guide is hard to write, because G1 and J1 has passed and it is difficult to assume how well their attacks went.

    Generally speaknig I like to get fleet for the atlantic half round 1. UK needs that support to smooth things over with italy or to start getting drops in on norway/denmark or normandy/holland. I fly the bomber to london usually

    Carrier. 3 destroyers. 2 subs. or bomber(s) depending on how g1 went his buy and how much air uk plans to ship off.  Take brazil. pacific fleet in Hawaii.

    Round 2 onwards is mostly pacific. The 2 subs are for convoy or attacking naval.
    ~
    The reason I dedicate USA 1’s buys to the europe half is because it gives UK time to react. Ideally you want UK to have italy restricted to just Europe in time to start assisting Russia with air and inf drops on europe. This may require some upkeep (such as getting more carriers and dds for uk so they arrive in front of london when he needs it).
    ~

    The pacific generally depends on you. There are two schools of thought. 1) The attack japan’s naval school 2) the indestructible fleet.

    The attack Japan naval school prefers to counter attack and exchange dutch islands / phil. Usually usa clears out blockers and anzac goes in to take islands, while usa typically maintains 2-4 transports. Ideally you would want to be at carolines, but australia is fine.

    The indestructible fleet school of thought will either situate itself on japan itself or hover over Java / other dutch islands to guard it.

    Proponents of the sit at Japan school of thought, say that it forces Japan to make minors in SEA and build naval there to bring it up… meanwhile it forces japan to spam a bunch of infantry on its capital… also you can sometimes get an opportunity to attack and conquer japan (usually at under 30% odds, but when you are at risk of losing on the europe half… 30% for Japan to never have to worry about it again… seems pretty good). They also like to point out that USA can fly fighters to Japan waters and then to mid china and then into russia to defend russia.

    The attack Japan’s naval proponents argue that exchanging islands and forcing japan to block your naval so you can exchange (sub for destroyer or 1/3 roll at fighter) is economically beneficial. Plus dropping 2 inf on phil means you lose 7 ipc for a boat, but you get 7 ipc in income and that is 2 inf japan has to figure out how to deal with. Also they usually try make enough naval to sit on carolines at the very least.
    ~

    There is a more europe centric school of thought. There are two schools.

    The round japan sets up to take india and has 90% plus odds with 12 air or whatever left… uk will pull india back and try to reclaim india later with mech from persia/iraq.

    The second is the hold school sometimes Russian mech/armor/air flies into India. Along with Anzac fighters (from Java). Also sometimes med/africa air flies into india as well.

    For this to happen USA needs a more balanced buy to ease pressure Germany puts on Russia while simultaneously trying to disrupt what Japan does.


  • TripleA

    Reserved.

    I realize I have posted a guide for Japan and have not given much assistance to the allies. I will try to fix that.

    I also want to note that there is a full surge strategy against Japan. When Germany buys naval on round 1, that opens up the door for russia to buy more mech. It also opens up the door for russia to declare war on Japan to send some of that over to the pacific.

    Round 1 inf novogorod and ukraine rest mech round 2 russia buys 9 mech and starts working the pacific.  The forces russia has is strong enough to hold back the Germans for the first 5 rounds (russia getting conquered on round 6). The rest is inf so the germans don’t try anything too fancy.

    Plenty of time for russian ground to surge japan and USA to shut Japan down on the water. The key is not losing india and not taking kwangtung or SEA with Russia. All the income you want to go UK pacific, which will be the second russia to defend egypt/middle east with.

    After round 5 or 6 USA swings into full atlantic gear to shut germany down.

    It is pretty fun to do.

    Also try to reserve Brazil for ANZAC if Japan does not declare war round 1. He can make a minor industrial there to pester Italy and it prevents any nutcracker from italy as anzac goes after.
    ~
    **from a competitive standpoint I tend to bring the russians to asia if germany took more losses than usual on his first round (usually just 2 mech and 1 armor round 1 and 4 mech goes over on round 2).

    All this does is keep china going. The first step is to work toward china collecting Burma road income while keeping India alive. Instead of this, most allied players usually try to get iraq/ethiopia/tobruk for russia**



  • Great contribution Cow, I like the idea of stacking in SZ#6 to convoy, divert funds, and block while attacking with Russia from the north. Maybe I should send a fighter and T. bomber from Moscow toward the east to support the attack?



  • Hmmm so 4 mechs in Moscow and if Germany goes in the sealion direction the Russians go West.  If not they head to China and make problems for Japan.  I rather like that.   🙂

    I wonder if its possible to build some mechs in Stalingrad and try for Yunnan R3.  Maybe China can get some artillery?



  • I have been complimenting my J1 attack with a G1 attack on Russia (not a popular strategy, but I stand by it), anyway… that’s for another thread.



  • @Young:

    I have been complimenting my J1 attack with a G1 attack on Russia (not a popular strategy, but I stand by it), anyway… that’s for another thread.

    I would be quite interested, in how it works out. Seems like a lot of lost infantry and some tanks due to some russian counter-attacks, or do you spare some of the british fleet attacks? To me it seems quite difficult to attack France, Sz111, Sz110 and some russian terretories. Something could defennitely go wrong. Maybe just start another thread and explain how you do it.


  • TripleA

    Where is the uk and usa drop men on europe and deny germany from norway/finland money option?


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    @Cow:

    Where is the uk and usa drop men on europe and deny germany from norway/finland money option?

    Exactly, looks like Germany could crumble fast with US, UK and Russia pounding on it all at once. Japan could get a little tough to deal with, but it takes some time to get out of control.


  • '12

    If you’re in a bid game for the Allies, it might be helpful to place 3x Chinese INF on Yunnan or combine it with the ANZAC idea: 2x INF Yunnan + 1 INF New Guinea.


  • TripleA

    Usually bid rules are 1 unit per territory when it comes to bidding. Most people also only allow bids for usa, uk, russia and anzac. Basically countries with capitals only.

    Prevents stacking strategic locations for the purposes of turtle.


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    Want someone to test this out?

    I downloaded AAA software, could go along and play a few turns (slippery slope to get started on this)

    @Vance:

    I’ve been looking into a G1 to go along with J1 too.  Might as well skip the sealion bluff baloney. Here’s what I came up with:

    build:
    1 destroyer in z113
    1 mech, 3 armor in Germany

    attacks:
    z110: 2 subs, 1 battleship, 2 fighters, 2 tacs, 2 bombers (scramble unlikely)
    z106: 2 subs
    France: 7 inf, 3 art, 3 armor, 3 fighters, 3 tacs (overwhelm to minimize losses; odds very good even if 3 fighters shot down)
    yugo: 6 inf, 2 art from south Germany and 1 inf from Romania; strafe and retreat to Romania
    East Poland: 6 inf, 6 armor

    NCMs:
    4 mechs to Hungary - important!
    Land 1 fighter in Rome and all other planes in West Germany
    1 inf from Denmark, 1 AA from West Germany to Norway
    1 inf from Denmark to West Germany
    11 inf, 3 art, 3 AA to Poland
    3 inf to Finland
    cruiser to z113
    sub to z125
    leave Bulgaria for Italy; they will get Yugo, south France, later Greece.  Forget about Africa

    Russia’s options:
    1. Attack East Poland with 3 planes, 7 inf, 1 art?  Losses too heavy, probably lose.
    2. Stack Belarus and North Ukraine?  East Poland army + mechs and planes can wipe them out.
    3. UK/France land planes in Karelia, USSR attacks Finland?  Not worth it (ie get 4 fighters but lose 5 inf and maybe the tac).
    4. UK/France land planes in Karelia, USSR reinforces Karelia with inf/AA?  Novgorod guaranteed to fall G3 so any units that go up there will not escape the encirclement.  Moscow dies that much faster.
    5. Anything for adventures in the middle east or China?  No. All units needed to defend Moscow.
    6. Build infantry, run to Moscow, wait for allies to open second front.
    7. Moscow will die before Siberians get to Moscow, so send them back to Amur R2 then down into China.


  • TripleA

    So back to USA strategy guide? ^.^



  • A standard USA move cannot be presented. Too much is depending on the starting moves of Germany and Japan.
    What you shuld do as the USA is the following:

    • How does Europe and the Pacific look like. Can the UK harass Germany and Italy or does it need immediate help to do so?
    • Where did Japan move its fleet.
    • Did Japan attack the small fleet around Hawaii?
    • Is it safe to move the US-fleet to Hawaii to threaten immediate counterattacks on turn 2 and to pin down Japanese forces?

    suggestion: Reinforce the US-Fleet on turn one.
    about: 1 Transport (7), 2 carrier (32), 2 Submarines (12)

    • You can leave your transports to die, if you can take a valuable island, just always keep new loaded transports comming. Japan is quite short on groundforces. You can force them to use their ground forces to retake some islands.
    • threaten an attack if japan doesnot keep its fleet together.
    • Stay out of their airforce range in the beginning (so they have to move their airforce in unfavorable position to attack your fleet).
    • Sacrifice your fleet, if you can inflict a lot of damage by doing so (especially in the early rounds) and divert Japanese forces from attacks on India.
    • Try to kill as many groundforces with china as possible.
    • Setup small counters with ANZAC. Keep at least 1 loaded transport in reach to JAVA.
    • Use ANZAC Forces to destroy lonely Japanese transports or small fleets.
    • Maybe sacrifice ANZAC forces to weaken Japanese positions (like 2 loaded carriers, a battleship and 2 destroyer with 3 fighter 1 destroyer and 1 crusier) to crush them with the US.

    In addition: Use the 18 Russian infantery to threaten Manchuria and Korea. If Japan needs to take care of them, India is releafed at least one turn and the south pacific should be open for counter attacks.



  • Mass subs for the US in the Pacific.  Let Japan take all those DEI, etc, just continue to sink her ships.  Japan’s going to have to spend 8 IPC for every 6 IPC you spend or risk losing her more important and stronger ships or face her ships getting sunk quickly from a pack of US subs.

    Later on, you use those SS to convoy any gains away from Japan, putting her in a situation where she has to build DD to chase out the subs, spending more resources than you to replace losses and do something that has almost no benefit unless Japan already had spent resources to get the IPC.

    To me, its a win-win for the US and you don’t have to manage some super fleet hoping to trap Japan’s own superfleet somewhere.



  • I think you need to stack Yunnan with the all the chinese inf you can on C1 and the three planes in the Brit airforce. Make him sacrifice planes and initiative or pass and give you the Burma road.

    Pretty much give up on stacking India and be a pain in China stacking Yunnan, holding the Burma road for a turn or two, building mechs and a tank or two in India and eventually pushing to the coast while working to reinforce Queensland with Americans and Anzac.

    Retreat the 18 Russians back and swing them around the backside of China to help in later rounds. No need to expose them to the easy kill early.



  • @Spendo02:

    Mass subs for the US in the Pacific.  Let Japan take all those DEI, etc, just continue to sink her ships.  Japan’s going to have to spend 8 IPC for every 6 IPC you spend or risk losing her more important and stronger ships or face her ships getting sunk quickly from a pack of US subs.

    Later on, you use those SS to convoy any gains away from Japan, putting her in a situation where she has to build DD to chase out the subs, spending more resources than you to replace losses and do something that has almost no benefit unless Japan already had spent resources to get the IPC.

    To me, its a win-win for the US and you don’t have to manage some super fleet hoping to trap Japan’s own superfleet somewhere.

    Interesting, this way you can send all your starting capital ships, cruisers, detroyers, and transports from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and spend every american cent on subs in the Pacific for the rest of the game.


  • '12

    @Spendo02:

    Mass subs for the US in the Pacific.  Let Japan take all those DEI, etc, just continue to sink her ships.  Japan’s going to have to spend 8 IPC for every 6 IPC you spend or risk losing her more important and stronger ships or face her ships getting sunk quickly from a pack of US subs.

    @Young:

    Interesting, this way you can send all your starting capital ships, cruisers, detroyers, and transports from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and spend every american cent on subs in the Pacific for the rest of the game.

    While a sub menace can be helpful, I think its efficacy might be overstated.  If the subs attack, then the IPC value is in the US player’s favor, but if they are sitting waiting in Convoy SZs and the DDs attack, Japan has twice the combat power without having to spend twice the IPCs.  Plus the Japanese can probably bring in air support as well.



  • Lets clear my SS statement up a little bit:

    SS are immune to Japanese aircraft unless a DD is present.  Japan starts with a massive amount of them.  +1 US.

    SS cannot hit Japanese Aircraft in any situation.  This forces Japan to take naval hits which are something Japan never wants to do.  +1 US.

    Japan cannot expand without naval supremacy.  Each ship you eliminate from the Japanese navy lessens their ability to expand confidently.  Packs of SS accomplish this efficiently as you don’t have to commit significant resources in capital ships + aircraft to accomplish the same feat and fear a counter-attack that will sink your fleet too.  +1 US.

    To defend against SS special abilities, a DD is required, making SS hits more valuable in any given attack round when no DD is present.  This confounds a Japanese defender because a choice has to be made between preserving a DD to prevent this or losing a more valuable ship than an SS (which is the cheapest to purchase).  +1 US.

    In order to nullify the SS attack advantage, DD have to be purchased at 8 IPC.  As SS cost 6 IPC, each trade of an SS for a DD nets the US +2 in economic value, an economic win for the US.  This becomes even more valuable as you start to chew through Japanese fleets that do not have DD present.  Even a tipped BB or CV is worth it if Japan has to fear a second strike from those SS after you submerge them when the DD gets eliminated.  +1 US.

    SS present Convoy problems once all DD have been eliminated from the Pacific.  Each purchase of an 8 IPC unit to stop a convoy of 3-4 IPC is an economic benefit to the Allies because you take part in a resource denial campaign that prevents Japan from spending resources to expand beyond places it already obtained.  Even with trading a 6 IPC SS for the US, it is FAR more efficient than the resources required to take a DEI from Japan, defend the fleet accompanying the landing and then holding it.  +1 US.

    The only true disadvantage is that SS without a capital fleet is incredibly vulnerable to DD + air strikes.  Of course, if Japan is attacking SS with DD and aircraft, they aren’t using them to expand their economy.  I’d accept a break-even here, but I think the advantage is still +1 US for hindering Japanese expansion.

    Overall, SS is king in the Pacific, particularly in roving packs of 4-6 SS (I buy maximum SS for the pacific the moment the US can join the war) where you’re more than willing to trade 2-3 SS in order to sink a couple ships Japan will have to replace when your purchase round includes 4-6 replacement SS off of W.USA.


  • '12

    You forget that the Japanese only need to have 1 DD present + as many air as they like (which they have already) to attack submarine packs.  At the cost of 1 DD, the air units get all their round 1 hits against the subs at a minimum with zero possibility of retaliation as the subs can never hit the opposing air.

    Again, I do agree that subs are pretty sweet, but you have so many +1s there it makes it seem like you can win almost solely with subs.


  • TripleA

    Well, you get subs, because you want to attack not be on the defense.

    If you are having issues getting in range to attack Japan’s naval, do what I do when that situation comes up, sprinkle subs around so you can counter attack. Japan hits the subs with dds and air, you counter attack all the spots. Pretty simple.


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