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J2 Attack is Superior to J1 in AAG40



  • I hope the following evidence will prove, once and for all, that a J2 attack is superior to a J1 attack in Axis and Allies Global 1940.  Please feel free to leave any comments you’d like to add or detract from this study.  This post was created from intensive research on the various IPCs values of theoretical targets for both J1 and J2 attacks, while I was sitting bored waiting for a plasmid chemical transformation to occur in the lab, so if I have missed anything, please let me know.  (This guide assumes that Japan does NOT play conservatively and goes all out in China and in the Pacific, also shows when and where it should attack.  Losses from land units taking territories are not factored in as it is assumed that many of the starter territories should put up little resistance at the beginning of the game, nothing that overwhelming force won’t fix.)

    J1 ATTACK

    Borneo  (+4)  1 TRN
    Hong Kong  (+3) Land forces
    Phillipines  (+2)  1 TRN (also might be somewhat risky with only 1 TRN)
    FIC  (+2)  Land forces

    +11 IPC gain

    Battles

    UK BB SZ 37  (+20)
    -attacked with 1 FIG 2 SBmr, lose FIG (-10)

    US 1 DD 1 SS  SZ 35 (+14)
    -attacked with many units, possibly lose 1 SS (-6)

    US 1 TRN 1 SS 1 DD 1 CA  SZ 26 (+33)
    -attacked with many units, possibly lose 1 SS and 1 DD (-14)

    NOs

    No peace NO at game start  (-10)

    US AT WAR ROUND 1  (-40)
    -Normally US could be at peace for Rounds 1 and 2 and not get this NO

    TOTAL

    +78 - ~15-20 IPCs loss of starting units = +60ish

    -50 just in NOs = - 50

    You might squeak out some IPCs (~10) from this strat with a very minor edge at game start, but its akin to kicking a hornet’s nest (the US) without making sure you have bug spray beforehand (the DEI).

    PROS

    Japan has the initative at game start against the US.  Can dictate future US buys into the Pacific to avoid a rout, or forfeiture of the entire Pacific theater.

    CONS

    Everything must be pushed towards Hawaii to maintain unit advantage for the first few turns, meaning:

    The DEI theater is going to be rather light and might be difficult to prevent counterattacks from India and especially ANZAC.  China will definitely be more difficult without the starting planes.  Could be used by the UK to pull in forces from India to Africa to take advantage of the vacuum, making Italy weaker in Africa and the Middle East.  Russia might also be tempted to turn back in Siberia.

    J2 ATTACK

    The J2 attack assumes that you are still pushing forward in China where you can J1-J2 and landed your planes in Kwa for maximum impact.  Also, you ought to have bought some combination of 2 or 3 TRN on J1 for future mobility in the DEI.

    Borneo  (+4)  1 TRN
    Hong Kong  (+3) Land forces
    Phillipines  (+2)  2-3 TRN
    FIC  (+2)  Land forces

    PICK TWO:
    Sumatra  (+4)  1 TRN (might be somewhat risky if UK took on UK1) OR
    Java  (+4)  1 TRN  (might be somewhat risky if ANZAC took on ANZAC 1) OR
    Celebes  (+3)  1 TRN OR
    Malaya  (+3) 1 TRN  (I would highly advise taking out Malaya early so ANZAC misses an NO, plus its a good location for minor IC) OR
    Dutch New Guinea  (+0)  1 TRN  (You could prevent ANZAC from getting BOTH NOs, but this island is more likely to be counterattacked by the US)

    +18-20 IPC gain

    Battles

    It’s likely the Allies pulled everything in range back, but you might have some minor fights with DDs and SSs.  Maybe lose 2 subs, max?  Probably will be offset or even ahead when factoring in opponents’ TRNs and starting unit losses.  Going to assume Japan is sinking UK and ANZAC’s starting TRNs (+ 14)

    NOs

    Peace NO with the US on Round 1   (+10)

    US war dec on Round 2  (-20)

    TOTAL

    • ~44 IPCs in terms of territories, killing TRNs and NOs, maybe losing a few due to combat losses but doubtful, with all the starter planes in range.  Possibly even up to +49 or + 54 if you sack Malaya and Dgu, you prevent 2 ANZAC NOs right there.
    • 20 US Round 2 NO

    = +20ish and change IPCs for the Japs.  The Japanese should be around 50 IPC income by now with all the fighting in China, and should be in excellent position to seize the +5 NO for the DEI the next round, bringing them in close to 60.

    PROS

    This strategy usually pulls the US into the Pacific by moving their Hawaii fleet to SZ 54 to help protect ANZAC and the remaining DEI, so you only need to deal with one Allied fleet group at a time.  Also UK India and ANZAC are neutered in the Pacific early on, so they’ll be on the defensive as long as you can hold onto your lead against the US.

    CONS

    Japan and especially the Carolines are vulnerable to US attack by moving everything into the DEI.  This can be offset somewhat by moving many forces to the Carolines J2 to provide some deterrent, but it might leave many of your tranports in the DEI ripe for the picking.  Try to preserve your starting tranports as much as possible, and play defensively where you can against the US.

    Anything else you all might see?  Or how this strategy would relate to other, more Global strategies?  I can see how both J1 and J2 attacks might either help or hinder a Sealion strategy by the Germans, but I was also wondering if anyone has tried using a strong DEI navy to go after the Middle East or even Africa to help Italy out?  Does that dilute your forces overmuch or could you still get away with at least a carrier group this early in the game?



  • attack australia round 3 together with german sealion



  • Hey SgtSlitz, don’t you think that a J3 attack might be even better than a J2….Do the math for that one will ya



  • @Idi:

    Hey SgtSlitz, don’t you think that a J3 attack might be even better than a J2….Do the math for that one will ya

    HELL NO.  Nidi awin, do you have any idea of the number of variables in a J3 attack???  Mainly, I did this to see if the IPC gain from killing the various starting Allied fleets at J1 was worth the loss/slowdown of income from the DEI later on.  On paper, it looks like attacking on J1 gives the Allies too many options with the extra NOs and DEI money while straitjacketing Japan’s fleet and resources into Hawaii.  I don’t recommend J3 unless Germany is all-out Sealion and the US is in a poor position to counterattack in the Atlantic (and you only want them spending 52 IPCs as a response in SZ 101 on US3).  There’s too much money out there in the DEI for India and ANZAC to pick up during Round 2 if you don’t attack anyway.  The longer you wait the worse off you’ll be, with UK/ANZAC troops and ships blocking everywhere.

    However, if you can couple the Sealion invasion to a devestating all-out Hawaii strike on J3, that’s totally worth it (you’ll probably also have a few spare boats by then to kill the DEI at your leisure).  Watch those foreign-devil Yankees run!



  • @Frontovik:

    attack australia round 3 together with german sealion

    Yup, really depends on where the US fleet is then, if SZ 54, kill, if SZ 26, kill.



  • @mantlefan:

    One thing I like to do as allies if japan does not attack J1 is move 1 ship each to borneo, Philippines, and Malaya. This prevents Japan from getting Sumatra, Java, and Celebes when they do attack, unless they expose their ships by moving into the zone with loaded troops beforehand, which I have never had anyone risk against me.

    By doing this you spread what little fleet you have out making them easier targets for when the Japanese maul your pint sized navy.


  • '10

    @mantlefan:

    You don’t think I know that? They really don’t have anything better to do. Spreading them out in some ways makes it harder because japan needs to split up to attack them. I’ll take that major difference in IPC income over some near worthless ships.

    Lol…I can think of many better things to do with those ships. They can focus on staying alive and be ready to retake sumatra(or any of the DEI) anytime they get the chance, when it’s time they can sacrifice one by one to blocade japan when they come for India , they could join an US or Anzac fleet (or both)they could even be of use in the med. In fact, about anything other than spreading them in the face of Japan is better.



  • blocking the axis from the DEI doesn’t really work. All it takes is for Japanese transports to be located off of Siam for them to be able to take Sum, Jav & Bor, althought I suppose you could defend Cel from an attack, but a Japanese fleet based between Car and Sia and even Kia if you are properly positioned will require too many allied ships to defend.


  • '10

    I don’t have the patience of IL , so i won’t engage in an endless arguing contest with you.
    Just want to make my post clear since you’re trying to make it look ridiculous.

    @mantlefan:

    ROFL. You say they are good for reatking the DEI when with with my strat you HOLD the DEI. When you retake the ships die soon anyways, so which is easier sir, taking with infantry or holding with infantry? Lol.

    So, did i say that you have to retake any of the DEI NOW, IMMEDIATELY when Japan is in position to retake it just after very easily ?? I don’t think so…
    Now tell me, Mr “I HOLD the DEI”, haven’t you noticed in your games that, at some point, USA has a tendency to threatens Japan mainland ? When the US fleet get so big that it doesn’t fear Japan’s fleet anymore, what do you do? Do you still hold the DEI or do you hold Japan by retreating your fleet and building some more ships/men/planes/whatever ? Common sense dictates that you are going to defend Japan. Now guess what ? It’s precisely at that moment that UK is going to retake a DEI island…

    @mantlefan:

    I’d like to see your breakdown for this. With what I do you lose 2 DD 1 Cru and assuming J2 attac, you get Java and Sumatra for 1 extra round and Japan is prevented from Java, Sumatra, Celebes, and the 5 IPC for the DEI for 1 round. That’s +8 for the allies and -16 for the axis

    So, basically, what you’re telling me is : in order to prevent the Axis from getting 16IPC and getting 8 IPC for allies for ONE TURN(so a 24 IPC swing), you are sacrificing 28 IPC (2 DD, 1 Cruis)??!?
    And on top of that, you add that these boats : " really don’t have anything better to do"  Come on man! Just admit that there are more interesting things to do with these ships than just wait to get blown by the Japs the turn after…
    Now, from numerous of your previous posts on this forum, i understand that you kinda have an issue with admitting ever being wrong…So maybe you could just admit that there is more than one interesting way to play this UK fleet, that would at least be a good start…

    @mantlefan:

    you erroneously believe can pull off a two or three turn block of India lol.
    If you think you can sacrifice them one by one to blockade India the axis player you are playing against is poor. Airplanes can fly over ships you know.

    No, i do not think one can blocade the Japan fleet for more than one turn on proper Axis play. The planes can always clean the blocaders and then the fleet move to a SZ adjacent to India on NCM. Period.
    BUT…if Axis gets distracted from his goal or makes any mistake, at least you still have a few boats to take advantage of it.



  • I don’t have the patience of IL , so i won’t engage in an endless arguing contest with you.

    No, IL doesn’t have patience. In fact, he believes to know everything so he loved to arguing.  :mrgreen:
    Mantlefan got his point of view and you got yours but i’m not suprised you won’t engage because you’re not
    able to reply when some one send you a message!


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