Welcome! If you're a returning member of the forums, please reset your password. If you don't receive an email within minutes, it means your account is listed under another, likely older, email address. Contact webmaster@axisandallies.org for help.

What is making Alpha 2+ unbalanced?


  • Customizer

    Vote.  What is the problem.



  • I’ve read alot on this forum and have played 4 games with my group. 5 player games. We came out with 1 allied win, 2 axis with the last probably an allied (game was called due to time). Our longest game lasted 15 turns with an axis win.
    I am against adding anything to the Germans. If you add anything, it will make sea-lion a win for Germany regardless of what the UK does. Do not make sea-lion an absolute win. As the British, why would you ever want to play the game? Just to lose I guess.
    Back to Germany. In every game I have played based on WWII (and I have been gaming for 30 years), Germany has the one question it faces after France falls: Do I go after England, or do I go after the SU? The historical path should always be easier to do. Sea-Lion should be a nightmare for Germany to attempt. There should be the chance that Germany could win it if everything went right, but the normal outcome should be a loss for attempting. What am I basing this on? Simple, it is the fact that Germany could in no way possible match England’s navy, nor secure the channel for a supported attempt of sea-lion in this short of a time frame. It is a game, so give them a chance.
    Now Italy. Its easy to fix the first turn Italy problem. Combine the navy. Probably in the sea zone next to Albania (don’t have the board out, so don’t have the zone numbers). What do you think about that ? It would make Italy’s fleet much more survivable especially if there are German planes in S.Italy after G1.
    I wouldn’t mess with the Soviet set-up. To us, its fine as is.
    UK is fine.
    France is fine except maybe too much navy? Also should be an Inf in FIC.
    Japan is tough to gauge. Here is the problem with the Japan/US relationship. America is Japans largest supplier of raw materials, especially oil. Japan is at war with China and the US doesn’t like that too much. This game allows Japan to go whole hog into China without any penalties. In reality, Japan engaged in moderate offensive activity in China and the US cut off here trade with Japan. This one thing forced Japan to do Pearl Harbor. It was that, or run out of fuel for Japan’s fleet. Right now, Japan is allowed to do whatever they want in China, and the US declares war at the end of turn 3. Kind of ok, but Japan doesn’t get its surprise attack. Don’t know exactly what to do about this, but there should be some link between Jap aggressiveness and US production/ability to war dec.
    Other than that, I think Alpha2+ is pretty well balanced.


  • Customizer

    You didn’t vote.


  • Customizer

    Now we’re getting some votes …


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I put Russia is too strong, but… as a second, I also believe italy is too weak…



  • @Gargantua:

    I put Russia is too strong, but… as a second, I also believe italy is too weak…

    I super agree!  That is what I am talking about!  I think if those two issues are addressed we will have a much better game on our hands.

    I also like the idea of the minor in Romania you guys were talking about.



  • I didn’t vote because my option wasn’t there . UK to weak .  My only concern with the UK is they have too much in France . They should have the inf . in france and the plane in Normandy both in London . That would end most sea lion problems.

    Itlay should have it’s fleets combined or all aircraft in Southern Italy or both.

    Germany should have a minor presence in north Africa and or the med.  trans or sub or inf and art in Libya.

    US need less ships to start . Get rid of Trans in Hawaii and both ships in Phillipines. Give UK India another trans .

    Let Japan attack DEI and Solomons chain without American DOW .

    So in summation UK(Europe)  , Italy , Japan weak



  • In all our 20 or so games its been about 50/50 so I think its balanced. My vote was that Japan is a little weak .  Its the only Axis I’ve yet to see become a powerhouse and take the game
      I like the last option to vote for, and ya wonder why people are constantly wondering what the rules 🙂



  • @suprise:

    In all our 20 or so games its been about 50/50 so I think its balanced. My vote was that Japan is a little weak .  Its the only Axis I’ve yet to see become a powerhouse and take the game
      I like the last option to vote for, and ya wonder why people are constantly wondering what the rules 🙂

    Darn 20 games and 50/50?  In our gaming group the Allies are pretty much consistently taking care of business against the Axis…


  • '12

    @Gargantua:

    I put Russia is too strong, but… as a second, I also believe italy is too weak…

    I 100% agree.



  • You should allow for 2 votes each.

    I put

    1. US too strong

    2. Italy too weak

    Sorry don’t really wanna mess with Russian setup except maybe shifting back units or something.
    Also, I rather get rid of Ukranian IC that add a Romanian one.



  • It boggles my mind how people could think Russia is too strong. I have waited till G4 and still took them out.

    I don’t think anyone is too strong, there just need to be some changes made to US NOs and how they enter the war.



  • @taschuler:

    It boggles my mind how people could think Russia is too strong. I have waited till G4 and still took them out.

    Me neither, but the stance seems to come from not being able to kill them “fast enough” more than Russia being able to take back anything.



  • i appear to be the only one who voted UK is to strong

    but let me explain
    first of all for germany, it’s very hard to kill all their navy, and normandy and have enough fighters for taranto. it’s almost impossible
    speaking of taranto, british can virtually stop italy dead in its tracks before it has a chance to play.
    also think india is bit to strong, now japanese can’t build big IC’s on malaya and hongkong (but that’s not the main issue)
    and to conquer UK itself, every new version keeps adding troops and difficulties, making it almost impossible. is not much fun!



  • @Xandax:

    @taschuler:

    It boggles my mind how people could think Russia is too strong. I have waited till G4 and still took them out.

    Me neither, but the stance seems to come from not being able to kill them “fast enough” more than Russia being able to take back anything.

    Not “offensively” strong but “impenetrable defensively” when it comes to Moscow.



  • My vote is Italy is too weak, sort of. If the fleets are combined, she would be in a much better position. If UK still wants to take out her fleet, then the UK will pay dearly in planes/fleet. This would make a sea-lion very possible for Germany. Something the UK would want to avoid.
    I also agree that it would be good to move the UK inf/plane in Normandy to the UK. This makes sea-lion very difficult for Germany. Not impossible, but very difficult.
    I do not think Russia is too strong. A prepared Russia should be difficult to take out and it should take more than 4-5 turns. Thats just the way it should be.



  • If China were an easier take out for Japan, that might allow the japs to shift focus and react to the stronger Nations sooner. I’m not saying China should be weaker with less units, but they should have weaker positioning to start the game. For example, start a few infantry from the south in the north territories closer to Russia, and maybe instead of $6 for the Burma Road, it should be 1 free artillery which is a loss of $2 but an interesting playing piece.

    I think Europe is fine, but I am really looking forward to Larry getting rid of the US Mexico NO and adding an “Operation Torch” NO (just makes sense to curb all the 100% Pacific strategies and reward participation in the European theater).

    In summary I think the game is slightly in favor of the Allies, however, I believe that the cure is a small pill and not major surgery.



  • Frank T
        When we play we randomly draw the round flags out of a cup, this way its pretty rare that one person is always a certain country. sometimes it happens I’ve pulled Japan 4 times in a row. (with ALPHA+2)
        Four of our players have been playing since the mid 80’s the other one or two, depends on who shows up have 10-12 yrs the other has been hooked for 3 yrs. Hes here every weekend
        The Axis wins are usually from better dice or a mistake on the Allies part. sometimes its the frame of mind your in    bummed out cause your one of the Axis or pumped because your one of the Axis
        I have yet to try the OOB set up for Japan instead of the ALPHA+2 set up



  • @suprise:

    Frank T
        When we play we randomly draw the round flags out of a cup, this way its pretty rare that one person is always a certain country. sometimes it happens I’ve pulled Japan 4 times in a row. (with ALPHA+2)
        Four of our players have been playing since the mid 80’s the other one or two, depends on who shows up have 10-12 yrs the other has been hooked for 3 yrs. Hes here every weekend
        The Axis wins are usually from better dice or a mistake on the Allies part. sometimes its the frame of mind your in    bummed out cause your one of the Axis or pumped because your one of the Axis
        I have yet to try the OOB set up for Japan instead of the ALPHA+2 set up

    Well you guys have been playing this a lot longer than me so you have a good bit more experience.  I do get much more pumped up to play the Axis in my gaming group because I feel it is a hard challenge for me to win with them.  And for the record I think Alpha +2 is supremely better than OOB.

    The one thing I have encountered is if the Allies dont make a major mistake then they usually win no matter what the Axis did.


  • 2017 2016 Customizer

    The only thing I don’t agree w/ is Axis Victory Conditions. They should have stuck w/ the OOB conditions. The new rules make Global kind of seperate games again. If the US goes w/ the “Germany 1st” campain, wich is almost always the way to win, that leaves Japan pretty much the winner in the Pacific. That’s how I’ve been winning as the Axis. Japan pulls it off 1st.



  • Do you go for the V.C.'s for a victory, or until one side concedes
      We don’t go for the V.C.'s we battle it out, and I like to put as much pressure on Russia as early as possible with all the Axis powers
      I think it’s amazing that you have not had an Axis victory
      I meant that instead of using the ALPHA+2 Japan set up use the OOB for Japan and ALPHA+2 for all the remaining countries. I think that it would give them the kick to eliminate one or two of their five enemies early in the game



  • Maddog,

    If the US reinforces Hawaii every turn, it’s pretty much impossible for Japan to take it, unless they put a lot of effort into, which means they are lacking in other areas. This is even if the US goes for a KGF strategy, which I agree is the best option for the Allies.



  • @Commando:

    Maddog,

    If the US reinforces Hawaii every turn, it’s pretty much impossible for Japan to take it, unless they put a lot of effort into, which means they are lacking in other areas. This is even if the US goes for a KGF strategy, which I agree is the best option for the Allies.

    I totally agree.  I have found it a far more effective Allied Strategy than going after Japan first and i have tried both/fought against both a couple of times now.  So I do think the 100% Pacific first crowd is right about the game being broken.  That said I do believe they are only looking at part of the picture and not the whole.

    If Japan could take Hawaii and pressures the USA that would be a pretty decent counter for the Axis.  Yet as you said the only way to do that is to sacrifice in other areas which imho ends up defeating the point.



  • I agree! Great minds think alike!  😄



  • @suprise:

    Do you go for the V.C.'s for a victory, or until one side concedes
       We don’t go for the V.C.'s we battle it out, and I like to put as much pressure on Russia as early as possible with all the Axis powers
       I think it’s amazing that you have not had an Axis victory
       I meant that instead of using the ALPHA+2 Japan set up use the OOB for Japan and ALPHA+2 for all the remaining countries. I think that it would give them the kick to eliminate one or two of their five enemies early in the game

    We just play unit the Axis capitulate or they capture the requisite VPs.  This usually takes around 15 rounds, and thats usually about 15 hours…at that point its time to call it.


Log in to reply
 

Welcome to the new forums! For security and technical reasons, we did not migrate your password. Therefore to get started, please reset your password. You may use your email address or username. Please note that your username is not your display name.

If you're having problems, please send an email to webmaster@axisandallies.org

T-shirts, Hats, and More

Suggested Topics

  • 5
  • 5
  • 20
  • 5
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 33
I Will Never Grow Up Games

38
Online

13.3k
Users

33.6k
Topics

1.3m
Posts