How is the balance with the new Alpha 2 changes? Please give your view.



  • kilroynothere,

    From what you wrote, and from seeing Japan at +10 NO, it seems you didn’t position that well prior to Japan expanding every which way. It takes some practice coordinating your powers in the Pacific. You should be causing trouble every way that Japan doesn’t go, which I’m guessing is in China and threatening Korea/Manchuria with Russia. A full move into Manchuria with a Chinese build on top can be a nightmare for Japan. On top of that, you need to be prepared to toss away ships and landing parties to make Japan pay for everything they want to do. The DEI is very hard for Japan to hold, as are the border islands. Once they lose that income and realize they no longer have enough land units to take on China and India, it’s too late for them to do anything about it. The US should be moving through the Queensland express and/or the Carolines to threaten in all directions. With the Japanese navy presumably stuck down south, I’d also look at the good old Soviet/US pact in Korea and a nice stream of subs in later turns to strangle them. New and improved kamikazi attack conditions make this a tad bit harder to pull off, but you’ve got a lot of options. Just remember Japan cannot rule both the sea and the land at this stage and your combined forces can grind them down.

    Italy’s income is…distressing. You fled the Med, I take it? Unfortunately, once you concede that, the US is going to have a lot harder time doing anything about it. Weigh your options on the Atlantic side well. Liberating London isn’t always the best choice, and you may be able to get Germany to pump in more funds preparing to defend it than they’ll get out of it. If you can bottle Italy and then knock out the Germany navy while stranding their troops in England, you could still have a good chance at winning.


  • TripleA

    actually r2 germany can load an inf on an italian transport and round 3 drop off.



  • Just a thought, in our games we allow all fighter’s in england to scramble not just 3. This allows the english to build fighters which means that sealion will be hard for germans unless they deploy alot of air power to defend the fleet. Also the brits can then redeploy the fighters to other areas when the germans go elsewhere.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Garg,

    I counted London once, not twice.  There is England Atlantic and England Pacific.  Taking London does not stop Calcutta from earning an income.

    Egypt NO round 3:

    • Germany takes S. France R1
    • Germany builds transport R2
    • Germany NCMs armor to Egypt R3

    With England toast, Egypt should be Italian by round 2.

    China at 4 IPC assumes: China has Kansu, Sikang, Tsi, Szechwan.  Taking the rest is almost a given for Japan in every game I have witnessed or played in.

    Most of those outcomes are derived from a Low Luck game and confirmed using battlecalculators. They assume virtually 100% efficiency with gear, however, and of course, I did give the caveat that outrageous dice would skew the results.  But with aggressive play, those outcomes are not only probable, but highly probable.  It would take near a miracle to make huge changes in those outcomes. (easy to swing it a few IPC one way or the other, I’m talking huge as in London surviving against 84% odds of losing it, America miraculously sinking the entire Japanese navy on Round 1, etc.)



    Kobu,

    As I mentioned, that’s with a HIGHLY aggressive Axis.  If you play more conservative, then I suspect you would not see it.

    However, it is becoming routine in my games to have no American ships in the Pacific by Round 3, London in German hands, Italy owning all of N. Africa by the start of Round 4.

    If you look at the board, I am sure you can see how you can exploit the Axis powers in rounds 1 and 2 to virtually annihillate every allied surface ship.  After that, it’s only a matter of moving where you need to go.



    The idea with China is simple, you close that road and you stack everything you can on it.

    To snip England’s testicles off, you prevent them from getting the Dutch East Indies by attacking them early.

    To body blow America, you sink their fleet before they can build it up.

    Japan has WAY more than enough firepower to crucify the Allies if they strike at the appropriate time and plan for follow up attacks appropriately.  The idea is to be thinking about where you will be on Round 3 on Japan 1, not where you will be after NCM of Round 1.  America does NOT have the firepower to do anything to Japan unless you allow them to build for 3 rounds without sinking any of their things early.

    London is dumping everything into London, so Egypt should fall like France.  If it takes Italy more than three rounds to get Egypt, Italy is being played wrong, or England allowed Germany to take it unopposed.

    Russia is an issue, but until Round 4, you can ignore them and they cannot earn more than 37 IPC a round.  Means, if you do not invest into an army, you should have about equal strength by the time they can attack it.

    Just imho, I mean, I only destroy the Allies as a matter of course now.  Letting them declare war on you when they feel like it just isn’t my cup of tea.



  • The way I typically secure the German Land unit in Egypt NO is by:
    Turn 1 noncombat 1 infantry in N. Italy, or attack Yugoslavia round 1 with 6 infantry 2 artillery 3 armor and maybe a fighter.
    Turn 2 noncombat 1 infantry from either N. Italy or Yugoslavia onto an Italian Transport.
    ……Italy moves transport to sz 98.
    Turn 3 noncombat 1 infantry from Italian transport onto axis controlled Egypt.

    Total German cost: $3 IPC value(starting piece so technically its free) for the infantry that is redeployed to Africa, which is still alive and 2 turns of staging…minimal opportunity cost especially if the unit helped take Yugoslavia. Expect to collect NO 2-3 turns before the U.S. takes Egypt.

    Note: if you put 1 infantry and 1 armor, it is possible to move the armor into Irag on round 4 for the Alpha NO and 3 more land units…use a bomber and get all 3 Persia NO’s for Germany by turn 5-6.

    If Egypt did not fall by turn 3, sometimes I offload on turn 4. Depends on game.

    I may be wrong, but Germany is (probably) not able to collect maximum NO’s in alpha without the game ending by victory city conditions…London, Egypt, and 2/3 Russian cities = 8/11 cities and actually ends the game before you can take Moscow-I guess you could technically take Moscow the round after as the allies have 1 round to stop you. (Assumes you have Paris, Warsaw, Berlin, and Rome)



  • So what exactly are the German moves/builds(and where) for Germany to secure the UK on turn 3?  Im thinking AC + transports turn 1 in 112, then transports again in turn 2 in same sea zone? Yes?  Could an effective counter for UK be not to build at all on turn 1, save the ipcs and build 2 BB’s on turn 2 in sz80.  With the 3 scrambled fighters they might get lucky defending against the german fleet on 5 fours.


  • TripleA

    if japan sets up to sink me in hawaii… I pull back to west usa. that’s not hard to do.



  • @Cow:

    if japan sets up to sink me in hawaii… I pull back to west usa. that’s not hard to do.

    That wont help you if Japan decides to attack the US fleet before turn 4.  J1 everything to sz 6 Buy CV and destroyer. J2 Buy transports and another CV and move everything to Hawaii.  J3 Buy 2 bombers and some subs. J3 attack philipines (cv and transports purchased on J2), attack hawaii and/or attack the us fleet (if it was silly enough to stay on the west coast). J4 Move bombers and subs to hawaii (to smash any subsequent us navy builds on the west coast).  This should free up the jap fleet to wreak havoc at will in the pacific.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Cow:

    if japan sets up to sink me in hawaii… I pull back to west usa. that’s not hard to do.

    I sink Pearl Harbor on Turn 1 or I go after Moscow.


    Germany takes France Round 1, Germany builds a fleet of Transports round 2, Germany takes London round 3.  There is absolutely nothing England can do to stop it.


    Moving a German unit to Egypt via an Italian tranny is great and all, but that’s 2 less units Italy can move herself.  I’d rather invest 16 IPC for a Tranny, Tank and Infantry (because that allows me to pop open a blocking unit with Italy and let the German tank blitz through.)


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’m not talking OOB, talking Alpha 2.

    G1:

    Normandy, Paris, S. France, SZ 111, SZ 106, SZ 91 taken/cleared

    G2:

    +10 Transports (9 in the north, 1 in the south)

    G3:

    London taken, egypt reinforced

    I1:

    British remnants and French fleet in the Med Sunk
    Syria Taken (or Jordan depending on garrison.)

    I2:

    Egypt, Gibraltar Taken (assuming Gibraltar not taken I1)
    Iraq activated

    I3:

    NW and C. Persia, NW Persia taken (depending on England garrison in C. Persia)



    J1:

    Philippines, SZ 35, SZ 37, SZ 26, Yunnan, FIC, Sham State, various Chinese, Borneo, Hong Kong taken

    J2:

    Malaya, Celebes, Sumatra, Java, Hawaii taken

    J3:

    NSW and/or QUE taken
    Most Australia taken by Dutch East Indies transports not killed by England



    Assuming you are playing Victory Cities, perhaps ANZAC layers ships to stop Japan from taking NSW/Queensland.  It stops the VC win, but still leaves Japan with about 65-70 IPC income with no American naval pressece. (British ships probably fled the area, considering all you have is a destroyer and a cruiser vs a vast air force.)

    England is out of the game, period.  London is in the hands of Germany, Calcutta is cowering and turtling to stop Japan from taking them. (You’ll only be getting about 12ish IPC anyway.)  China is gone.  No Artillery, most starting forces gone.

    I’d let Russia take Korea to advance further into China.  But lets face it, the days of Russia breaking the non-aggression pact are pretty much gone for good.  They need the 12 IPC to slow Germany until America can get into the war.



  • @Cmdr:

    I1:

    British remnants and French fleet in the Med Sunk
    Syria Taken (or Jordan depending on garrison.)

    I dont know who you play against Jennifer, but if the UK player gather his fleet in z92 turn 1, there is no way you can take it out with the italians.
    In fact its more the other way around then, if the italian player moves anywhere turn 1, you will have the option of crushing his fleet turn 2.


  • TripleA

    woah if japan hits hawaii turn 1… that puts usa in war… and that sets back japan’s offensive. and usa can land air in UK before germany can take uk down on R3 (plus 2 ground units with the starting transport off east usa).

    USA collects bonuses can hit south america etc. How are allies losing if you throw usa in war so soon?
    ~

    Only reason I been consistently winning is because my opponents keep trying new things, but I already know USA at war round 1 is not good. I don’t care what you sink and good you sink it. It’s not worth the 60 bucks you let america get combined with the opportunity cost for a swift asia.
    ~
    R2 UK takedowns are really dicey for germany, that’s just luck. Starting to think usa should collect more money to balance out against luck or allies bid. and R3 is like wow… idk with usa in the mix i just don’t know

    Is uk losing his 3 fighters trying to protect a set of ships in a desperate gambit? If that answer is yes, then you are doing it wrong. If you scramble with uk it must be in a battle you have probable odds of not losing a fighter.



  • Agreed.  Bringing USA into war on J1 coupled with a transport build on G1 should signal the intent of Sea Lion.  USA should sell out to get ships and aircraft in London to protect vs. Sea Lion.  Gibraltar is crucial to getting aircraft to London in 2 turns.


  • TripleA

    ever heard of greenland?



  • Yea u could go Greenland but by staging out of gibralter the us has put it’s self in a great position to both reinforce London but also pressure a good amount of Europe


  • TripleA

    For saving uk as a capitol you would want to strictly go by greenland to avoid any italian forces. They can’t attack usa round 1 without usa reinforcing uk. makes the sea lion strategy extremely luck based.



  • Gibraltar is better positioned strategically and it comes with air and sea bases, allowing fighters, Tacs and sea units to land in London in two turns.  This is the most efficient way to reinforce London.  You would have to buy air and sea bases as USA for greenland and it is still 6 spaces from London meaning you have to land in Scotland first.

    Gibraltar is the best option.  Greenland is a definitley second choice, IMO.

    England will have to keep the Italian heat off Gibraltar in the Med (even if it costs the fleet).


  • TripleA

    you can launch sea units off east canada and air units off greenland seperately.

    there is no buying airbases or naval bases.

    greenland already comes with an air base…. or am i thinking of iceland. Frick new territories.


  • TripleA

    Quebec has a naval base. You can avoid any possibility of dealing an italians and avoid a casualty or two from nuetrals and get strait to germany. I am not crazy.

    heck you can fly in air from quebec. It is exactly 4 spaces.

    greenland has an airbase on it already as well… though that’s silly now that I think about it since quebec gets to uk.


  • TripleA

    I don’t know what to say about this game.

    The way it it stands assuming you buy strait inf with uk and assuming germany maximizes his land troop drop offs. Assuming uk doesn’t lose his initial fighters on his little island. Germany should be able to get UK in both low luck and dice games.  Another quandary that exists is if uk’s initial transport survives (sails to quebec and comes back with 2 guys a round later).

    So if that is the best strategy for Germany and Germany is expected to take over UK. I don’t see what the problem is with usa making more money. Considering the other nerfs in units and unit placements allies took.
    ~
    If larry harris wants more than one standard strategy… perhaps russia needs more NOs involving the heart of Europe so that if germany does get uk and exhaust 3 rounds of resources… russia’s income will be on par on the offensive.


  • TripleA

    if russia is going to make that solid push for germany, he’s going to need armor. germany takes uk and the infantry artillery combo is too good. russia either has to throw down complexes or a major close to the action or put out some armor or both.
    ~
    making russia vs germany an even fight in the event that uk falls… while making germany vs russia favoring germany if he decides to push for russia. is difficult to balance in all honesty.
    ~
    cracking infantry stacks is much harder now with the cost of tanks being at 6.
    ~
    maybe we should make all national objectives worth 5. That seems fair. Germany’s tactical advantage over russia of being able to strike anywhere and hold berlin is just a bit too cheesy… it forces russia into a defensive position no matter what almost.
    ~
    russia deserves his transport back… screw that sub. if uk is gone on G3 or G4 it’s only fair russia gets a round that is free of counter attacks from baltic seazone.



  • Iceland, Gibraltar and Nova Scotia are the possible staging areas to reinforce London by air.

    Gibrlatar is preferred for reinforcing by sea since your sea units can reach SZ110 and perform a blocking function.  Sea units from Iceland and Nova Scotia can only reach 109 (they can drop off men but cannot block German sea units).

    Iceland and Nova Scotia give the advantage of not being harrassed by other Axis forces (Italy).  Gibraltar is a better strategic position (maintains the Allied foothold in the Med, acts as staging for attacks to London, Southern Europe/Italy, Africa).

    Gibraltar is my preferred option as long as the English navy in the Med is able to take a toll on the Italian navy.  If they kill off each other that should be good enough.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    If America is hit Round 1 then it is at war.  Yes.  It cannot sink the Japanese fleet and the Japanese fleet would be DANGEROUSLY close to landing in W. USA, Alaska, New South Wales, New Zealand, etc.  Especially with transport builds on Round 1. (Why waste money on warships, you own the Pacific!)

    America COULD move planes to England.  However, since Germany is not buying any transports until Round 2, they will have MORE than ample time to deterine if they can still do Sea Lion or go Barbarrossa instead.  America is, of course, building ground units to hold N. America and not putting significant ships in the Atlantic anyway. Otherwise, the game will be over and Japan will win on Round 3.

    Keep in mind, there are only three allied warships in the Pacific now.  1 ANZAC cruiser, 1 British Destroyer, 1 British Cruiser.  Everything else is rusting at the bottom of the ocean.  Meanwhilse, Japan has everything except potentially the cruiser in SZ 37 (Malayian Sea Zone.)  That’s a TON of equipment that has to be matched and then overcome. America only has half a dozen fighters and a scattering of other aircraft at this point.

    Odds are HUGELY significant that America will augment it’s airforce and build ground units Round 1.  It cannot do anything else.  The remnants of the fleet will go to the Spanish Main (around Havana north of Brazil, south of Alabama) to protect it from the certain death it will face against the Japanese armada in SZ 26. (Hence why I did not include them in the list of Allied warships in the Pacific.)

    ANZAC will stagger ships to prevent Japan from hitting NSW on J2, but that’s a formality, ANZAC is doomed and it knows it.  There will be no reinforcements, there will be no American aggression to distract Japan and there will be no British build up. (How, they have lost the Dutch East Inidies and any chance of getting their Pacific NOs.)

    Russia will not attack, Germany will be on their door soon enough.  China will survive in the short run, but they’re toast.

    If America does dump planes on England. (I think they can by round 3 after Germany builds transports, maybe, but they’d have to stage them in Canada and that would certainly tip off the Germans) but they’d have no defenses on the United States and that wil fall then.


  • TripleA

    cmdr jennifer… usa will likely send what it currently can to uk while taking the rest of south america while buying land and air units. No one cares if you get a couple of little islands, the burma road will still take you awhile and you just speed up usa two turns. as far as taking south america goes.

    As far as sinking all the usa ships, it’s not that big of a deal to usa.

    asia is fine so there is no hurry
    europe is fine if uk holds so there is no hurry there either

    I can see scrambling if japan isn’t sending overwhelming odds and even if you lose those fighters that still leaves a bomber and a fighter at the very least to go to UK with 2 infs. Which is 2 boatloads of guys.

    As far as taking WEST usa goes… that kind of crap only matters if you can hold. USA sees what you can drop well in advance. build infantry/artillery in central usa and it is as easy as that to counter. If you want to stick all your air in the ocean and I can’t hold west usa… there is only so many boatloads of guys you can drop. it’s just that easy to counter from central america.

    Don’t have to buy the full 10 infantry west usa jesus christ. Also sending air only to uk is not a bad idea. it does screw up the sea lion real bad. Also it gets uk rolling so much faster if germany is going toward russia. since all he has to do is buy carriers and usa will fill it with air… bam instant naval protection. Bam transports. Bam start poking away at europe.


  • TripleA

    jennifer you can tout your game results with inexperienced players as much as you want. Not fooling me.

    But if you think your strategy is that good then maybe usa should go back to +15-+30.


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